Gentleman Jack

Just read that the BBC have not commissioned a third series of GJ.

Don’t think Suranne Jones is happy about it.

This Times Radio discussion between Ayesha Hazarika and Sally Wainwright provides insights into Ann Lister's character, how she fantasised about being a man but knew that being a woman in 19C society gave her more opportunities to meet other woman.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEBwGcjGcpk

Loved the last episode especially the moving scene in the church with the child's tomb. She read that final meeting with the Sutherlands brilliantly. It was obvious the quiet sister was bursting to tell the truth. Inviting the man, who Lister knew was the other Mr Grey, to join them was a stroke of genius.

Roll on series three.

The series is great. I haven't read the diaries (yet) but I see her as a much more positive version of Radcliffe Hall's John, in The Well of Loneliness.

Was Lister what we now think of as lesbian, was she trans? Who knows.

I really enjoyed the final episode of the series. Glad to see the dastardly Captain Sutherland getting his comeuppance.
At times, I thought Ann Walker and her sister looked very alike and I had a job telling which one was which. Good casting.

Still felt sorry for poor Marian though.

Hmm. I wonder how she would have fitted into the modern political scene? I haven't listened to the book yet so only have Sally Wainwright's dramatic interpretation to go on.

How would her clock-driven no-nonsense approach have fitted in with the drinking culture and horse-trading that goes on in the HoC. She would certainly have been a victim of those who oppose LBGTQ rights and exhibit transphobia.

I'm currently rewatching The Thick of It. I cannot imagine her tolerating that level of utter chaos and incompetence which I suspect is very much how business is conducted in this government.

In her diaries, she was very much a Tory - even refusing to sell a property she was quite desperate to get rid of to someone who made a good offer as he was a Whig.
She was quite happy to control the votes of her tenants, using a loophole in the law to mean that she actually had control of 20 votes (no secret ballot back then). Do think that her totally narcissist personality would have made her very much an part of the modern Conservative party.

Absolutely love the series! What a dreadful person she must have been, all coercive control and manipulation for monetary ends never mind the sexuality which I’m certain of time was very misunderstood.
I think the whole series has been very cleverly put together.

I also find the whole thing a bit manic. Anne Lister’s dialogue is so speedy that it is often difficult to follow. The wigs are so obviously wigs it is not likely to win any prizes or awards.

Thank you Franbern. I have the audio version of the Angela Steidele book in a queue to listen to. I believe the TV series are based on books by Jill Liddington.

From the TV series, Mariana knows, doesn't she, that Lister isn't in love with Anne Walker. She seems to treat her more like a pet than a partner, no intellectual connection there at all. She seems very good at manipulation and flattery. As Mrs Rawson said, in front her son Christopher, what a shame Miss Lister could not have stood for Parliament! Did she ever muse on that in her diaries?

From the diaries, I would describe Anne Lister (using modern terminology) as having extremely controlling and cohesive behavior. She would often have several sexual relationships on the go at one time, even taking one partner with to visit the home of a different one!!! She would often comment - disparagingly - on the looks of her current and former partners,

As she got older she became more and more desperate to find a long-term partner to live with,but one who would also provide the money required to live very comfortably and assist her in carrying out the building work to Shibden Hall. She could talk herself into being 'in love' with anyone who she felt would have these attributes.

The Wiki entry for Anne Lister includes a portrait painted by a Mrs Turner of Halifax in 1822 which Lister describes in her diary as

an admirable likeness... The likeness struck me as so strong I could not help laughing.

The heavy eyebrows are there!

The later Joshua Horner portrait is far more flattering.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lister

I'm enjoying this series as I do all Sally Wainwright's dramas and think Suranne Jones is well cast.

Her character is being rather economical with the truth about Eliza Raine as it seems it was Lister's affars with Isabella Norcliffe and Mariana Belcombe which contributed to Raine's mental break down. We've see Belcome severely distressed by Lister's behaviour and Anne Walker see-sawing in her mental state. The common factor is Lister so did she prey on fragile women or did they become so once in a relationship with her? Perhaps this adaptation focuses too much on Lister the ambitious business woman and glosses over the unsavoury side of her personality.

Thank you for your post Franbern. There's definitely another side to this character from real life !

I do like Suranne Jones's portrayal of her. Excellent acting. Each episode, for me, gets better and better. I've try to ignore the eyebrows.

I see she directed this series with Sally Wainwright.

Loved the first series but finding the second series very boring..

There is something about Suranne Jones that I don't like in this drama.
Her diary sounds interesting, so may buy a copy.

Am finding it a little confusing with all the various characters, but love the costumes and the music.

That’s interesting Franbern. As I mentioned earlier, one of the things I feel uncomfortable about with the series is that I find her character very predatory.

I am currently reading her diaries (for a history book club), and feel that the 'real' Anne in those comes over as a much nastier character, than the way she is portrayed on screen. So much of the diaries are just details of her sexual encounters, including catching an STD, which she then passed on to her lovers, and then blamed them for re-infecting her!!!!

Fascinating character, so much in many ways outside if her time, yet in others very much part of those times. She was also a social climber - always looking for a partner that would bring a good annual income and be able to introduce Anne into royal courts, etc.

With most series, I skip the opening credits, but rather like the Sopranos, the music and photography are brilliant so watch it every time.
I read her diaries and she certainly was a handful, determined and prejudiced. We have to accept her as she was and not what we would like her to be.
Yes, slug eyebrows, why?

This is a wonderful portrayal of those times, I believe. I think its cast is perfect, and the script is great. I love the speed and thrust of it all, and I think Suranne Jones is amazing in the role. I am not keen on her in other things I have seen her in, but I think she is perfectly cast in this. I am grateful for a quality, entertaining and engaging drama, there are so few of them around

I’m not sure what I think of it to be honest. I find Ann Lister a bit predatory in the series and I think her sexuality is probably the least interesting thing about her because she really was an amazing person. I just so hate her hairstyle. I know it’s of that age but it must be the most unflattering hairstyle in the history of hairstyles! She reminds me of the child snatcher.

I’m not a fan of this at all. Think that bloke should have left the lead actress in the torpedo tube in Vigil !!
( Disclaimer - this is a joke - I mean no personal harm to anyone ! )

Yes, poor Marian. It seems hypocritical of Anne to choose what was a very unconventional lifestyle in those days and expect her family to accept that, but decide that Marian marrying into trade would bring the family down.

But I have to say that I really admire Anne for her intelligence and the way she lives her life. She certainly was a trailblazer. Just a pity she can't extend the same to her sister. Of course, the chap may have nefarious intentions......

We have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. Nice to find a costume drama OH will watch.

Just caught up with Sunday’s episode.

I felt so sorry for poor Marian, Anne’s sister. Not sure why her potential husband is so unsuitable, apart from being ‘in trade’, and she would obviously be ‘marrying down’, being a Lister, but to be informed so blankly that no family would attend the wedding and she would never be spoken of again…. Of course, the poor chap had the audacity to speak to Anne at the Navigation meeting..how embarrassing! He could, of course, have his eye on Shibden.

Does Anne not think that her unconventional lifestyle may give her own family concern, but they all support her?

Good that times have moved on, for all situations.

I am enjoying this series but what has happened to Suranne Jones, she is so thin now and her face looks very gaunt. Concerned she may be unwell.