Polly Toynbee.

It is a lovely illusion, isn't it, that if pushy middle class parents sent their children to state schools they would do better.

In fact the majority of pushy middle class parents do send their children to state schools. Less than 10% of children go to private schools, yet 25% of working people fall into social classes AB, and 50%, into the usual middle class definition that covers social groups ABC1.

The problem is that there is generally a correlation between the socio-economic background of the catchment area of a school and the quality of the school and since those that own homes tend to be better off than those that do not, and home owners also buy the best house they can afford, schools with lots of 'pushy middle class parents, tend not to be in the areas where state schools are most in need of improvement.

My DGC are attending excellent state schools. In fact nearly all the schools in their city seem to be excellent - and that is because over 60% of the population fall into socio-economic groups ABC1 so 'pushy middle-class parents form the majority in most schools.

But how much is the excellence the socioeconomic group of their families in purely money and occupation terms and how much in the higher educational levels of the parents, that means they are likely to be providing a culturally enriched back ground for their children: books available and brought into the family, talking to children more, reading to them, taking them to visit places etc, walks in parks, visiting (free) local museums and libraries. Things that are available to everybody regardless of social class, but are known to be used most by the better educated.

It is a lovely illusion, isn't it, that if pushy middle class parents sent their children to state schools they would do better.
It's a point of view. I don't see it as an illusion, but of course you are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

We have five children and used a mixture of state and private, depending on the child’s needs.

I am old enough to remember these sentiments being expressed both publicly and privately in the 1960s and they were doubtless also expressed all the way through Queen Victoria's reign when many European monarchies disappeared and again at the end of the first World War when both the German and the Austrian Empires were replaced by republics.

I didn't know Polly T sent two kids to private schools! Just another hypocrite like many others.

Personally I wouldn't predict a future vision with any amount of certainty too many unknown variables can alter how we envisage the future may unfold.

I just don’t agree with her. Many other countries still have their monarchies and whilst I see things changing I certainly don’t see them “disappearing” forever… but there again what do I know

I believe he will be king just look how many turned up and how many watched it and Megan what she got to do with it she won’t last.

Toynbee wrote a very moving expose about life on benefits, and how impossible expectations of job seeking are when you don’t have enough money for travel to interviews.
But she’s way offwhen it comes to the monarchy

It is not a question of any of the attributes or behaviour of any individual who occupies the role of monarch - rather how do you improve on a system that does prevent abuse of power? We have arrived at our current arrangements over centuries of discord - would be reluctant to change for any other current model.

M0nica

I always thought she was a total prat.

Me too.

GrannyGravy13

paddyann54

I'm hoping they'll all be shown the door a lot sooner than 25 years .What DOES it take to get the blinkers off about these parasites ?

Once you call human beings parasites you have lost the argument Paddyann54

Quite right GrannyGravy13. According to Paddyann54’s reasoning everyone who receives a payout from the state are parasites. And the RF actually work very hard well beyond state retirement age. Numerous charities befefit from royal patronage, not least the Princes Trust which supports young people in their business ventures, when otherwise they would never have had that opportunity.

The RF technically could claim all of the income from Crown Lands, but they don’t. It is all handed over to the government in exchange for the Sovreign Grant. The RF are wealthy but so are Rishi Sunak and a good proportion of MPs. I bet the RF pay more tax than Boris Johnson, Cameron et al with their offshore accounts.
Then there is the £5.5 + millions in tourism income that the RF bring in to the treasury.
I don’t think the RF are the ones with blinkers, Paddyann54

Hmm Polly Toynbee, well known journalist. She has an axe to grind and she's wrong.
I've been thinking today about 2 countries that deposed their monarchs in 1918 and the dreadful consequences...

Polly Toynbee will be proved wrong. Her statement is simply wish fulfilment. The Royal Family will endure simply because it is a better alternative to a politically appointed/elected President. Look around the world and you will not be impressed by most Heads of State! My political views are left of centre but my opinion still holds.
As for Megan somehow being a potential saviour of the RF, I cannot see it myself. If you actually look at what she declares are her guiding principles and then at her actions, she shows herself to be a first class hypocrite. Ditto Harry.

Think today proves that 25 years (just a year less than the death of Diana in 1997) is a relatively short time, and if today is anything to go by, George will be crowned King George V11, albeit a much slimmed down, more modern monarchy.

They were thinking of becoming a Republic in Australia I believe. A lot of talk and then it was kicked into the long grass as nobody could think who they might have instead as head of state.
IMHO the royal family do some good and are too dim to do any harm.

After today I honestly think a republic is a long way off, even if it is more democratic. Today’s pomp and circumstance (wasn’t it marvellous?) will have sealed the fate of the monarchy in a good way. They will not be going anywhere judging by the responses of the crowds, the comments on Gransnet, and everyone else. I would like to live to see William crowned but I probably won’t. Polly Toynbee hasn’t a chance in …… of her wish coming true any time in the foreseeable future.

I still think a republic is more democratic, but what we’ve got isn’t so bad after all.

I agree, maddy.

Yes, I did think she might be right but I've changed my mind.

I'm just a bystander/observer from across the pond, but from what I have seen, it was a beautiful and very elegant ceremony. I hope the Royal Family goes on forever, and I say this as an Irish woman whose family came from County Mayo, to America during the Potato Famine. I disagree that Harry would have made a great addition. He could have, if he had wanted to make a great addition, but he's never gotten over himself. Frankly, I don't think Megan helps. I think she has contributed to his sadness and his unwillingness or inability to fit in. From the very get-go, I have laughed at people who implied any kind of racial bias with regard to Meghan. She doesn't look black, she doesn't dress in any iconic or typical ways that have been made famous in the black community. I've never seen her in any African cultural attire . She is absolutely classic western grace and beauty on the outside. What would a racist person use as a reason to discriminate against her? But what I do disagree with is her attitude. I think she really thought she was a princess, and I think she had a rather outdated view of how princesses behave.

Anyone that doesn’t see Megan for what she is, needs their heads examined. No wonder the Guardian is struggling.

I see her as a fellow human being whom I do not know and am not in a position to pass judgement on, let alone vilify.

Luckygirl3

I see her as a fellow human being whom I do not know and am not in a position to pass judgement on, let alone vilify.

Well said Luckygirl

Maddyone, I watched the coronation and reached a similar conclusion. King Charles seemed absolutely genuine in his faith and commitment to his role responsibilities and duties. A very touching moment when William played his significant role. Prince George fully involved as Paige boy, absorbing the momentous occasion and his future responsibilities. I was watching with friends (yes, left leaningGuardian reading types). We all shared similar views, particularly the who could be a better, less politically compromised HoS.

Luckygirl3

I see her as a fellow human being whom I do not know and am not in a position to pass judgement on, let alone vilify.

Totally agree Luckygirl ditto so many others that I’ve never met but vilified by the certain factions of the media. Are we sheep?

How on earth do you get by in life never reaching any judgment on anyone unless you know them in depth.

Polly Toynbee is a journalist - and a prolific one. She writes lots of opinion pieces. Of course you can get a feel for the person from what they write. If you have any sensitivity and intelligence you read what is written by people, of people, and their behaviour and listen and sift and compare and contrast, and reach 'on balance' conclusions about them.

How boring life must be if you see everyone who is not a personal friend or relation as being just as blank as a one dimenional photograph.

Does your blankness extend to saying we can know nothing about Boris Johnson, or Donald Trump because we do not know them, I won't say 'intimately', it could be misunderstood, but not well enough for them to be on your Christmas card list (Oh, I know, you do not send Chrustmas cards, you donate to charity) well enough to be texting them.