Dispatches - Russell Brand

A woman should be believe ,why ?

Anniebach

Supporting men ? A woman accuses a man, no witnesses,
should the man be found guilty ?

Not necessarily - but the woman should be believed

But Anniebach, when there are several women who don't know each other and are not asking for money, and want to be anonymous, why should we not believe them? It takes incredible bravery to step forward, especially when you've complained before and been ignored. One woman attended a rape clinic at the time. I applaud every woman who puts herself through this, and the term "sexual assault" nowhere near covers the gravity and trauma some of them have suffered. "Sexual assault" can be used to describe a smack on the bottom, but is also used when a man has thrust his penis into a woman's mouth and down her throat so that she chokes and can't breathe ... and has to punch him in the stomach to make him stop.

People believed Virginia Guiffre against Prince Andrew, even though she was asking for millions from several men.

Supporting men ? A woman accuses a man, no witnesses,
should the man be found guilty ?

It isn't supporting men to wonder why women are still being abused but not reporting it until they are much older, and then only to a programme looking for them.
If we all condemn RB and say "hurrah for the women" how do you think that will help future generations?
It's one area where feminism has completely failed, looking at why is valuable
I didn't say that either . It's Misquoting Tuesday.

Of course the important question is why women often come forward much later, but in many ways the answer is blindingly obvious - it's because people won't believe them, will support the accused men, and find any means possible to discredit the women.

Future generations may well be helped if men like RB, Rolf Harris, Jimmy Savile, Stuart Hall etc etc realise that they might get away with it for a while, but there is a good chance that their crimes will catch up with them sooner or later, and stop their entitled narcissistic and criminal behaviour. It is the culture in which women are disbelieved, men are supported and open secrets are covered up that allows this sort of thing to continue to happen.

Has feminism failed or has patriarchy succeeded? Debatable, but either way, unless women know that there is a good chance of being believed, and of getting a conviction they will continue to lick their wounds privately rather than come forward and report abuses.

Ailidh

Loathe media pile ons, a la Schofield and Edwards.

What I found ludicrous was his statement that it was a concentrated attack on him, and his fans apparently expressed views at the show he did that the powers that be were trying to bring him down.

Why would anyone bother? His views would have to try hard to get up as far as "utterly irrelevant".

That there's media pack-mentality, turning to savage someone when they're down is almost certain, and repulsive, but I think it's down to bloodlust, and not because Russell Brand is important.

Exactly. A Salacious story that will run and run. No conspiracy, just a very unpleasant man having his chickens come home to roost.

Loathe media pile ons, a la Schofield and Edwards.

What I found ludicrous was his statement that it was a concentrated attack on him, and his fans apparently expressed views at the show he did that the powers that be were trying to bring him down.

Why would anyone bother? His views would have to try hard to get up as far as "utterly irrelevant".

That there's media pack-mentality, turning to savage someone when they're down is almost certain, and repulsive, but I think it's down to bloodlust, and not because Russell Brand is important.

Doodledog

Anniebach

It doesn’t mean he did have abusive ones

Oh for goodness sake! That is not what I said!

Someone used the fact that it he had (or should I say 'it is alleged that he had') a non-abusive relationship to weaken the allegations against him, and I pointed out that that the possibility of his other relationships being very different can not be discounted. I did not say that it proved that he did have abusive ones.

The fact that many women who were in those relationships said that they were abusive is of far more importance than anything I could say anyway. Given some of the comments on this thread, I think that they were very brave to speak out, and I fully understand why they didn't do so at the time. Despite decades of feminism there is always more support for men than for women, which is a sad indictment of our society.

It isn't supporting men to wonder why women are still being abused but not reporting it until they are much older, and then only to a programme looking for them.
If we all condemn RB and say "hurrah for the women" how do you think that will help future generations?
It's one area where feminism has completely failed, looking at why is valuable.

Anniebach

It doesn’t mean he did have abusive ones

Oh for goodness sake! That is not what I said!

Someone used the fact that it he had (or should I say 'it is alleged that he had') a non-abusive relationship to weaken the allegations against him, and I pointed out that that the possibility of his other relationships being very different can not be discounted. I did not say that it proved that he did have abusive ones.

The fact that many women who were in those relationships said that they were abusive is of far more importance than anything I could say anyway. Given some of the comments on this thread, I think that they were very brave to speak out, and I fully understand why they didn't do so at the time. Despite decades of feminism there is always more support for men than for women, which is a sad indictment of our society.

The current Zeitgeist is on the side of the MeToo movement; the Spanish Kiss was a fine example. There is a residual anger against the laddish celebs of the noughties; I am interested to see the other comedians that will line up the wall with Brand.

Micheal Barrymore; what a waste of a talent.

Sparklefizz

Well, it's the kiss of death for Brand now that Michael Barrymore has come out and backed him

😁

Oh dear!

Yes I agree Callistemon. What he and that horrible Ross did to Andrew Sachs was horrible and nasty. I was just interested to read that the granddaughter bears Brand no malice.

Well, it's the kiss of death for Brand now that Michael Barrymore has come out and backed him

Glorianny* 👏👏👏👏

Thanks tickingbird that's a great post.

I do wonder as well about the culture that could be called "ladette" where girls match men for drinking and drug taking, accept casual sex and unsuitable jokes. As they grow older do they regret this life? And does what might then have been described as a "quickie" or "a bit of rough sex" become mixed up with that regret? I think it is far more complicated and involved than at first it seems. If women only recognise they were victims as they get older can we blame men for not realising it at the time?
I don't want to be accused of victim blaming. I do think we have to look at this very carefully, learn lessons we can teach younger men and women and stop these things happening.

tickingbird 👏👏👏👏

I Will say before I make this comment that I’m neutral regarding Russell Brand, I neither like or dislike the man. Looks are subjective but he’s not my idea of a good looking man and I’ve never found him particularly funny but, in fairness, I’ve only seen snippets of him here and there.

Having said that, I find the amount of press coverage pretty shocking. I can’t help but feel there’s a coordinated effort to bring him down. He’s not a mainstream star anymore and just does (or did) his shows on YouTube. I forced myself to watch the Dispatches programme last night and found some of it quite shocking but some of it was pathetic. Some runner/assistant saying she had to pick out women from audiences and invite them to meet him or give their phone numbers. Then a few days later some of these women would ring said assistant/runner upset as they’d had sex (consensual) with him and he’d promised to call. Groupies do the same. Rock stars/ pop stars/celebs of all kinds behave like this all the time. Why is RB being singled out? I found a lot of it suspect and most of these women were in relationships with him and having consensual sex. No it doesn’t give him the right to force himself on them but this reaction is way over the top. There’s even articles demanding to know why his wife hasn’t left him! I don’t approve of a 30 year old man having a relationship with a 16 year old but the programme makers admit her family knew. When I was 16 there’s no way on this earth my family would have allowed me to be in a relationship with a man of that age regardless of how famous he was.

I’m sorry but I find this pile on by the media very, very suspect indeed.

I do think that there is amongst SOME of the male comedian fraternity, a toxic/misogynistic attitude going on that is often swept under the carpet. Anyone remember the lovely late Sean Lock, a very funny man, razor sharp wit and not one I would put into such a category. He was heard to remark, whether he was tongue in cheek or not, something along the lines of "I'd hate one of my daughters to bring Russell Brand home" now I've read that's exactly what Laura Gallagher's father said and felt There have certainly been some shocking pieces of footage of Russell Brand unearthed, particularly pertaining to raping, not acceptable humour and not funny anyway. With that in mind, why, why, why? was Frankie Boyle not pulled up and admonished for the remarks he made about Holly Willoughby along the same lines and there he is still broadcasting after that but also the shockingly salacious and spiteful remarks he previously made about Katie Price's disabled son.

It doesn’t mean he did have abusive ones

True, Callistemon, and it doesn't matter if he had one (or more) non-abusive relationship(s). That doesn't mean that he didn't also have abusive ones.

Kate1949

Andrew Sachs' granddaughter has said this morning that she doesn't see Brand as a rapist and takes the allegations with a pinch of salt, whilst acknowledging that they must be investigated. She said he was a different person then.
She apparently had a three year relationship with Brand and he never acted inappropriately with her. He also paid for rehab for her when she needed it. Interesting.

It doesn't matter how long their relationship or what it was like, to phone a grandfather about his grand daughter's sex life was unforgivable, immature and downright nasty.

Katherine Ryan (comedian) strongly hinted that he was a sexual predator on the comedy circuit but said to Louis Theroux that she couldn't name him "because he is extremely litigious".

A victim of abuse or an alleged victim of abuse ?

the Bbc and channel 4 will be investigated for giving him a platform to perform his inappropriate behaviour on our screens and on air.

the police will only investigate what is reported to them by a victim of sexual assault.

his you tube channel has stopped him gaining money from adverts on his channel now.

Andrew Sachs' granddaughter has said this morning that she doesn't see Brand as a rapist and takes the allegations with a pinch of salt, whilst acknowledging that they must be investigated. She said he was a different person then.
She apparently had a three year relationship with Brand and he never acted inappropriately with her. He also paid for rehab for her when she needed it. Interesting.