Did anyone watch the C5 programme on CECOT with Richard Madeley

I definitely felt that the governor was covering up a lot.

I agree that many of them were doomed from birth. Look at how County Lines in the UK involves children from caring families who are ‘too soft’ to stand up to gangs.

One way to look at it is to think that collateral damage is a price worth paying to stamp that out and free future generations, but it’s a very high price for those who pay it.

I was reminded of the speech by the Jack Nicholson character in A Few Good Men. I’m very glad that I’m not involved in making decisions like that.

Macaydia.
yes - ‘the other side’ was glossed over and there were obvious reasons why prisoners were not allowed to be spoken to and ‘uncomfortable’ questions were shut down. The mass arrests and the lack of access to
lawyers were clearly questionable.
Crime and lawlessness, on the scale it was, needed a quick and fierce solution but it was a difficult watch and not something i’d want to see emulated here.

Yes, most can now sleep peacefully and their president has high ratings. Their government also recieves millions from Trump to disappear people from tbe US. Cecot also holds children as young as age 12 who have not commited a crime. Do they sleep peacefully? A lot of prisoners must sleep.standing up because there is no room in the cells that are hidden from the media. Imagine being beaten, raped and tortured every day by guards who do not get prosecuted for their crimes. CECOT also has buried hundreds of neaten and medically-deprived prisoners in mass graves. I cannot relate to the opinon that the UK should mimmick CECOTs human rights violations. I am not saying that criminals should.not be punished. I am saying that sins are committed on both sides of the wire fence.

I watched the programme from beginning to end. I watched it with an open mind. Build one in the UK. The prisoners are cold blooded killers. I said to my husband that people will complain they are robbed of their rights, but what rights did the victims have? They didn't just kill, they chopped the body up into pieces & filmed it.

Living the lives we do, it's hard to imagine a life of fear from these people. We cannot begin to imagine the conditions the community had to live by. I hope at least their lives have improved & can now sleep peacefully.

There are other viewpoints. Some of the men in CECOT are not criminals. The president had a quota of how many men were to be brought to CECOT. There were no trials to find one person innocent or guilty but massive trials of large groups and everyone pronounced guilty at once. If you were a mother of a college-bound son who was taken by this government, you will cry the rest of your life because there is rarely anyone being released from this cage. Young boys must commit murders so the gangs in their neighborhood dont kill them or their families. They survive by living in CECOT.

I watched the programme. There is no comparison to the UK as we do not have our cities and towns run by cartels and ruthless gangs. Of course we have killers, gangs, rapists etc but they are not running the cities, towns and villages. we just need to make our sentences fit the crime and to aim to rehabilitate as well as punish. We shouldn’t try to run vast human zoos

Sarnia

Chestnut

I haven't watched it but seen clips. What surprises me is apparently no mention of the death penalty. Surely in such a crime-ridden country and with criminals who've committed such horrendous brutal murders there is a case for execution. I can't see the point of keeping these mass killers alive in such conditions. Was the death penalty mentioned at all?

Good question and I don't think it was. Come to think of it, I don't think they mentioned court cases. These heavily tattooed gang members were easily identified and were rounded up in huge numbers and jailed.

There must have been some sort of court cases because one man had been sentenced to something like 772 years I think.
It was horrific and a sharp contrast to the UK, but then again the crimes they had committed were too heinous for words. In my view we need to be a lot harder than we are both in sentencing and the regime in our prisons; not as extreme though as that regime. I am surprised there aren’t suicide attempts although given lack of access to any kind of items I am not sure how they would go about it.

Very illuminating programme.

I was totally shocked at the conditions in the prison, but I now understand how and why they are kept like that.

Couldn’t help thinking we could do with some of that over here.
Or is that too much harsh punishment.

I think it all comes down to them thinking they were untouchable. Surely the saying 'if you can't do the time then don't do the crime' is the only option for these prisoners. From what Richard M was saying to join these gangs the new recruits had to commit 10 murders first. If they are not going to execute such barbaric people then they must be kept under complete control.

I watched the documentary and was horrified by the conditions the men were kept in. In the UK prison is a punishment but also supposed to be an opportunity for criminals to be rehabilitated and a deterent for people committing crime. Sadly the deterent aspect has been reduced by short sentences and rehabilitation is difficult due to overcrowding and therefore restricted regimes with many locked in cells for much of their time. Many who have been in prison come out worse having learnt skills from their fellow inmates. Drug use and smuggled items are commonplace. The regime in El Salvador was entirely about punishment and protecting the outside population - no attempt to rehabilitate. I would imagine some of the inmates might opt for the death penalty given the choice.
I wouldn't like to see the regime there replicated but our prison system probably should be tougher.
When I was a student I was part of a team visiting a Borstal. I don't know how things compare now as Borstals no longer exist, but I suspect the regime is more restrictive as a result of overcrowding.

Well, after reading about this place on here I just had to watch it! It was horrifying but the murders that the inmates had committed were even more horrifying...

Tolienista

Yes I saw it, or should I say I'm about three quarters of the way through and it is chilling. From the size of the accommodation blocks ..... Madeley calls them aircraft hangars. Just hundreds and hundreds of heavily tattooed , shaven headed men, dead behind the eyes.
Extremely intimidating atmosphere, but when you find out the extent of their crimes, you have to wonder how the wider El Salvadorian society feels.
Relieved I guess.

But it IS the wider Salvadorian society that breeds these people. They are seldom born that way. In some respects they are the survivors until they get caught.

jakuss

Exactly too many do gooders in Britain

I've always said that as soon as someone comes up with an idea for making things 'tougher' in any way someone else (or an organisation) immediately wails "You can't do thaat....."

Things just get softer and weaker year by year. This applies to anywhere which requires discipline, whether schools, prisons, Police force. There are often no consequences for bad behaviour or crimes, then the Courts are the softest and weakest of all! Never a week goes by without some awful crime going virtually unpunished with short sentences or no sentences.

Exactly too many do gooders in Britain

I wondered the same

Yes there are armed guards 24/7 outside their cells, looking in.

Absolutely we can take some messages from it. They have built it so well that there is no mobile phone signal inside, what a difference that would make for a start
No visitors allowed, ever, not sure about this one but it would stop smuggling, basic diet, the threat of being shot and killed if you try to escape. The people in this prison are evil and dangerous and deserve to be there, not sure how it would work here, but there are certainly some lessons we can take from it

You only have to watch some of the UK police programmes to see what they are dealing with on a daily basis in our own country and it’s getting worse. Our prisons offer no deterrent whatsoever. If El Salvador can block mobile phone signals in prisons, then why can’t we ? It’s a well known fact how easy it is to get drugs in our prisons, the whole system is on its knees and needs to be made fit for purpose in this day and age. The entire legal system needs updating too, given the level and repetition of what is going on in the UK. Someone needs to get a grip of it all before it sinks any further.

NotSpaghetti

Judges there are permitted to sentence minors as young as 12 to life imprisonment for serious crimes.

Is this really a good idea?

Some 12 yr olds are already beyond help i think.
Look at Venables and Thompson!
At a personal level we have recently had a rock thrown at the car windscreen as we were doing 25mph, very lucky it didn't come thru and cause a crash.
11yr old boy! Telling off from police and his guardian {Gran} had to pay some of the costs. We got it in installments as she's on benefits!

Chestnut

I haven't watched it but seen clips. What surprises me is apparently no mention of the death penalty. Surely in such a crime-ridden country and with criminals who've committed such horrendous brutal murders there is a case for execution. I can't see the point of keeping these mass killers alive in such conditions. Was the death penalty mentioned at all?

Good question and I don't think it was. Come to think of it, I don't think they mentioned court cases. These heavily tattooed gang members were easily identified and were rounded up in huge numbers and jailed.

I haven't watched it but seen clips. What surprises me is apparently no mention of the death penalty. Surely in such a crime-ridden country and with criminals who've committed such horrendous brutal murders there is a case for execution. I can't see the point of keeping these mass killers alive in such conditions. Was the death penalty mentioned at all?

I think they're docile because the consequences of acting up are far worse than what they're experiencing now. There is no point in trying to cause any problems. They are just sent into a cell with no light, no window, nothing apart from a toilet and a trough of water. Concrete 'bed' to sleep on.

It's horrific but it's worked for them.

Interesting documentary and Richard did an ok job. Even if he did say holy cow too often.

Maremia

Is that the country where women who have miscarriages are accused of murder?

Bit of a detour but these 16 US states have all had pregnancy-related prosecutions post-Roe v Wade

Alabama
Arkansas
California
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Kentucky
Mississippi
Nebraska
New Mexico
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Texas
Wisconsin
Wyoming

Two states, Alabama and Oklahoma account for nearly ¾ of all modern pregnancy-related criminal cases in the country, largely driven by aggressive local interpretations of fetal personhood and chemical endangerment laws.

Is that the country and the prisons into which Trump is sending ICE detainees?

Still thinking about the prison and prisoners and the more I read on this thread these people are pure evil . Evil has to be stopped and we have heard how they ran the schools . Can you imagine the fear for your children . Looking at them sitting like perched animals is tough for our eyes and brings out thoughts of human rights but imprisoning them has given people their human rights back . They would have had some kind of perverted pleasure from the evil they lived in so why should they have any care or compassion shown. I do hope the country is safer for people and I do hope the president is genuine and for the people . It was their army that got the gangs it seems . Which makes me think our army should be used more in supporting the police in dangerous situations . I do believe our prisons are out of control as recently I talked with a prison officer of 50 years who still works part time and he told me about the young prison officers who have difficulty dealing with the hardened prisoners who disregard any rules and regulations, also the prisoners rule the jails to an extent. Ours need toughening up . These words from my prison officer friend . His work is now with the young offenders and he talks to them to try and get them on the right path away from crime .