Energy and fuel poverty - live webchat with Baroness Verma, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the Department of Energy & Climate Change

But then you say it should be means tested. What good will that do, as many older people resent the idea of means testing as it reminds them of the poor law.
My parents used to be like that, and my mother-in-law.
Off to visit her now. She's just come out of hospital again, and back into the care home. Even though she had an allowance from the NCB, she never had her heating up, and could never understand the idea of keeping a good background heat.

I do not understand your statement that the elderly would not pay the bills. The winter fuel allowance is only £200, and everybody will have to pay more than that over the winter, will they not?
So I'm sorry, I think your idea of means testing is silly.
If you think the rich pensioners should not get it, then putting it into the pension is a better idea as it will then be taxed for those who get more than the tax allowance. At the moment it is not taxed.
Means testing costs more and is inefficient.

Martin Lewis has some good points here (@10m45s).

I am so glad I have been able to convince my DG of the importance of keeping warm and eating well. Her heating is on from early morning 5-6 am until 8-9 PM at night when she is usually tucked up in bed. It is also set quite high as her advanced age she does feel the cold. The point I was trying to make (as I am sure you know) durhamjen is that a lot of old people will not heat their home properly as they do not want to pay large heating bills. They begrudge the cost of the electricity and/or gas and so refuse to use it. Whether or not they can afford it. I do not think rich pensioners should get the winter fuel allowance and nor do I think people who are still in full time employment should get it, unless of course they fall into the category of the low income.
Yes perhaps putting it into the pension could be the answer but a blanket allowance for anyone over a certain age is not right when there are young people who cannot afford to heat their homes.

Incidentally my DG also gets an additional top up payment because of her age.

I'd like to re-iterate that it is not always easy or stress free to "switch" We moved into our house in August. It took ages for Scottish Power to remove the prepayment meter and put us on our preferred tariff. Then more ages to switch to our preferred supplier (oh no we could not switch until they had replaced the meters and then their computers needed several weeks to catch up) Much hassle getting through to them etc. Now we are switched (as of end of January - it's taken that long) they are sending us multiple "final" but also "estimated" bills (about 8 identical copies so far of electricity bill, which we have now paid and about 4 copies of gas bill) . They must have spent about £30 on billing at least. They could reduce their charges significantly if their admin and customer service were not so utterly woeful.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pensioners-annual-living-costs-rise-by-800-10061298.html

This is another reason why the winter fuel allowance should not be made means tested.

Baroness, does this article show that government policies are not helping the elderly?

Can you explain the process of fracking? And why is it so controversial?

Also - what are the advantages of fracking?

And what are the negative effects that fracking can have on human health?

I grew up in the era of CND marches and huge concern about any form of radioactive fuel. Compared to then it seems to have gone very quiet these days. What are the Government's current policies on nuclear energy and how can you reassure us that they are a) beneficial and b) low risk for the public.

as parliamentary under sec of state i understand that you are responsible for representing decc business in the lords. but what exactly does that mean and how does it differ to what happens with the same issues in the commons?

Hello, I must admit with embarrassment tht I'm not the most politically aware or active person - but as a carer of two elderly relatives, one of whom often sits all day without the heating on, I would like to know in simple terms the govmt's plan to make sure that people like her are not verlooked. My husband and I have argued constantly with her about putting the heating on and letting us pay for the extra but she absolutely refuses to allow this (to our complete frustration) and I'm just not htere enough to regualrly turn the heating up myself. We don't have much to spare ourselves, but would rather give anything we can to her than watch her sit out the winter miserably.

what challenges have you faced, working in a male-dominated sector? what would you say to any younger women thinking of breaking into a traditionally male industry or trade (I'm thinking specifically of my daughter here, who is currently finishing a degree in engineering and thinking of the behaviour she might encounter upon joining the work force - i'm probably being old-fashioned but do worry for her!)

glammanana

I congratulate the powers that be on the Stay Warm system (I think that is what it is called) where by if you are on a low wage or benefits of some kind you can receive a credit of £139.00 into your account from suppliers it must help people in a big way,I think it is paid before the end of March each year if you qualify,I only found out about it when talking to one of my elderly neighbours who got the information from her luncheon group,so it would be a really good idea to make the information much more available to people who can qualify.

Good to talk and hear that you are now benefiting from the Warm Home Discount. You raise a really important point that the Big Energy Saving Network can help many more people take advantage of the support available. The Network is there, funded by the Department of Energy and Climate Change and has helped over 90,000 people so far. It is an outreach programme that is conducted through volunteer networks in local areas.

My mother who's 75 has really found it helpful, and is using the information to spread the word in her little neighbourhood.

Just like to say that as one of the pensioners officially living in fuel poverty, I personally am grateful for the winter fuel allowance. I would like to see this extended to cover poor families with children.

JessM

Baroness, the Green Deal was the government's flagship green initiative aimed at improving domestic energy efficiency. It has generated mountains of paperwork and huge amount of effort by private businesses. Not to mention a huge amount of effort by civil servants. Someone in the know once guesstimated that there were about 60 civil servants working for months on end just to get the relevant section of the bill written along with the mountains of rules and regulations.
It would now appear to be a dead duck, lying in the shallows with its feathers bedraggled.
In retrospect it was far too complex a model, leading to a very unappealing interest rate. (all those companies that have to be involved if it is to happen need to cover their costs and turn a tiny profit after all). I won't bore everyone with the list but it is quite long.
If you were still in your present role after the election would you be trying to give CPR to this embarrassing corpse and if not, what would you propose to do about improving the energy efficiency of our housing stock? And how would you address fuel poverty? And could we look forward to any other flagship green initiatives from your department?

Hello JessM,

Thanks for your questions on the Green Deal and energy efficiency. On the Green Deal, we have managed to put energy efficiency measures in place for a million properties. It's a long-term programme and it really needs to tackle the large inefficient housing stock the UK has. Often as not, it's those on the lowest incomes that are living in properties that would benefit from the measures that the Green Deal and ECO provide. As a government, what we want to do is ensure that the fix is long-term, rather than 'sticky plaster' measures. So addressing fuel poverty remains very much a core focus of energy efficiency. We've introduced a new ambitious fuel poverty target to ensure that as many fuel poor homes as reasonably practicable achieve a minimum energy efficiency rating of a Band C by 2030.

And, we've also ensured that we have invested half a billion pounds in the Green Deal Home Improvement Fund which has been hugely successful, and again has enabled householders to put in measures to help increase energy efficiency of their property.

durhamjen

Why is the government pushing fracking instead of renewable energy?
When it was voted in in 2010, it said vote blue, get green.

Hello durhamjen,

Thanks for your question, and a really important one given the current global climate. We see that we need a good energy mix in which fracking has the potential to play a role in ensuring that we have a self-sufficient energy supply.

What's really interesting, since 2010 under the measures that we have taken; for example the Energy act 2013 which has reformed the electricity market, we have seen record levels of investment for the renewable energy sector. This has delivered over £35 billion in investment and several thousands of jobs have been created.

munchkin

Headlines today - dual-fuel customers of the big energy firms have missed big savings by not switching suppliers, according to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA)

It says that from 2012 to 2014, more than 95% of dual-fuel customers of the big firms would have have saved money by switching tariffs or suppliers. The savings they missed ranged from £158 to £234 a year per customer.

Spokesman from Which? said "Politicians and regulators have put too much faith in competition driving keener prices for consumers - this simply hasn't worked"

What do you have to say about this?

Hi munchkin,

In responding to your question on why 95% of dual fuel customers would have saved money by switching tariffs or supplies, it is absolutely crucial that switching is easy for customers to do and that is why the government has taken action to increase competition in the market, so switching times have now gone down from around 5 weeks to 17 days, and we're asking energy companies to make it even quicker.

Since 2010, we have many more players in the market, 20 independent on top of the big 6, so customers have much more choice and the competition really should be there to ensure that customers are getting better prices. Those that have switched are finding that on average they are seeing a big saving on their bills of around £200. People can go to the website - beanenergyshopper.com and see what they can save on their average bill.

crun

Dear Baroness,

I'd like to know why the government doesn't ban companies from using regressive tariffs with standing charges, which mean that people who use least are paying proportionally more for their fuel than those who use most. These tariffs are subsidising the profligate users at the expense of the frugal.

I realise that suppliers want tariffs which reflect the economies of scale in running the business, but it seems to me that rewarding people for using more is the wrong priority. It's not environmentally friendly, and on the basis that the poor will tend to be the ones who use least fuel, it's exacerbating fuel poverty too. It has a similar effect on the poor to having no tax allowance, and a basic rate of income tax higher than the top rate.

My electricity tariff is £69 +13.74p/unit, so taking that as an example, an average user (3300kWh PA) would be paying £552, with £275 for low user on 1650kWh PA and £701 for a high user on 4600kWh PA. (Low/average/high categories as defined by OFGEM.)

Now imagine scrapping the standing charge and changing the unit charge to 15.83p: low, average and high users would now pay £261, £552, and £728 respectively. That amounts to a 5% discount for the environmentally friendly frugal user who may well be on a tight budget, and a 4% increase for the heavy user who contributes more to carbon emissions. The average user pays the same.

Better still, consider the following scenario: change the unit price to 19.0p and give consumers the first 400kWh PA free of charge. Now the same low average and high users will pay £238, £552, and £798. As before, the average user still pays the same, but compared with the original tariff with a standing charge, the frugal user now gets a 13% discount, and the high user pays 14% more.

The first suggestion is better that the status quo because it is neutral, so that every user pays proportionally the same for their fuel rather than penalising the frugal. However, the second example is better still because it is progressive, and proportionally increases the cost as you use more fuel, which not only creates the right incentives for the environment, but also goes some way to alleviating fuel poverty. The actual figures are just an example to illustrate the point of course, it's the principle of using progressive tariffs that I'm arguing for.

I think that this policy should be applied to gas and electricity, but even more to water, in which rateable value tariffs are the most regressive system of all.

Hello crun,

You talk about tariffs and what we've recognised early on is that energy companies had far too many tariffs that were confusing, and that the consumer found it difficult to actually navigate which tariff best suited them. This government has decided that energy companies needed to simplify their tariffs and ensure that their customers were given the information on the cheapest tariffs.

You are bundling ECO and Green Deal together in your figures and doing so quite dramatically. You appear to also be confusing GD assessments with actual installations. Here is some information about the first 6 months of last year which shows only just over 1,500 GD plans completed between Jan 2013 and June 2014. And plans did not necessarily turn into installations.
Here is a government document on the subject.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/356954/Quarterly_Statistical_Release_GD_ECO_and_insulation_levels_in_Great_Britain_23_Sept_2014.pdf

durhamjen

What do you think about this research from Ageuk?

www.ageuk.org/latest-news/winter-fuel-payments-prevents-12000-deaths-each-year/

That's a lot of deaths prevented each year, for not much money.
If the payments are means tested lots of people will not claim them, out of misplaced pride.
Do you think the payments should be integrated in the state pension?

Hi again durhamjen,

You raised a point around means-tested Winter Fuel Payments and the AgeUK research. We're spending over £2 billion this winter to help British pensioners pay for their bills through the Winter Fuel Payments and particularly providing help to the most vulnerable to stay warm.

The AgeUK research suggested that around 12,000 lives were saved by the governments Winter Fuel Payment scheme, with the number of avoidable deaths in the over 65s falling by half since the scheme was introduced. However, for me, any death that is avoidable needs to be a priority. That's why we've taken action to continue the Warm Home Discount to 2015/16, to extend ECO to 2017, and to ensure that as many people as possible benefit from the measures that the government is taking to reach out to the poorest and the most vulnerable of our citizens.

ambertoby

What do you think of the people who deny climate change is even real?!

Hello ambertoby,

I suppose for those who deny climate change, what they can't deny is that everybody wants cleaner, greener environments. The fact that the science and scientists from across the globe have come together to demonstrate the impacts of humans on the climate is evidence enough that we need to do something to reduce further impacts on our planet.

We have an important conference coming up in Paris 2015 where we will need the world to come together again to commit to individual nations cutting their carbon emissions. I'm really proud that the UK has always taken a leading role in pushing for ambitious targets, and we'll continue to play our part in persuading our friends to be as equally ambitious.

Grannybell123

Hi Baroness

I would like to ask what the governments plans are in regards to giving more financial support to energy efficiency programs??

Hi Grannybell123,

You can already see that the government has taken the energy efficiency agenda since 2010 very seriously. We have already invested over half a billion in the Green Deal over 3 years. A million households have benefited from measures to make their homes more energy efficient, ECO is being extended to 2017, and that will see another half a million homes get help to drive their bills down.

We are rolling out the Smart Meter Programme with energy companies which will give householders up-to-date information on how much energy they are consuming. We're making switching easier so that consumers can benefit with ease from moving from one supplier to another, and we have told energy companies that they need to make their tariffs easier to understand.

JessM

You are bundling ECO and Green Deal together in your figures and doing so quite dramatically. You appear to also be confusing GD assessments with actual installations. Here is some information about the first 6 months of last year which shows only just over 1,500 GD plans completed between Jan 2013 and June 2014. And plans did not necessarily turn into installations.
Here is a government document on the subject.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/356954/Quarterly_Statistical_Release_GD_ECO_and_insulation_levels_in_Great_Britain_23_Sept_2014.pdf

Thanks JessM, I'd just like to clarify that the measures I'm referring to are ECO and Green Deal. What we are finding is that there is now a greater pick up for the Green Deal, but it is a long-term programme and we are determined to ensure that householders can benefit from measures that make their homes more energy efficient. Green Deal is only one method that householders can use. There are of course a variety of options that householders can access.

nanananana

My question follows muchkin's in that it is about energy firms and how we are meant to know who really has the best deal, whether we are being ripped off and whether it's really necessary to go through the hassle and upheaval of constantly switching. It's one thing for car insurance but at my time of life I don't want to be doing with household bills as well. What is the government doing to help the consumer?

Hello nanananana,

We don't want to see anyone ripped off. What we want to do is see that the consumer is able to - with as little hassle as possible - switch providers and that is why this government has told energy companies to make it easier, simpler, and clearer what their customers are actually paying for. The Big Energy Saving Network - a network funded by DECC, works with voluntary organisations to provide information to householders on how best to switch, getting energy efficiency measures and if they have issues around debt management or advice around energy saving. They can call 0300 123 1234.

We don't want to leave anyone out of the benefits of our measures and that is why by 2018 we will be introducing minimum energy efficiency standards in the private rented sector so that up to a million renters can also enjoy warmer homes and cheaper bills.

And, we have an ambitious fuel poverty target to ensure that as many fuel poor homes as are reasonably practicable achieve a minimum energy efficiency rating of Band C by 2030.

You might be aware that OFGEM the regulator, has also introduced a new Strengthened Confidence Code for price comparison sites which should give greater confidence to customers when they are switching.

Throughout 2014, 3.1 million people did shop around and switch for a better deal on their gas bills.