Webchat with Dan Jarvis on excess winter deaths

There is no easy answer, although I go to homes of friends in their 90s that are warm and toasty, my career experience was that as we age anxiety and ideas of poverty increase. So inspite of adequate income and heating systems many elderly will not be persuaded to keep their homes warm, even putting on the heating for a patient in the community would not help for after you left it would be turned off. Assessment into reasons why a home is bitterly cold is needed.

Agree with carol* but it also seems to me that another factor in this is isolation. If you find it hard to get out and about at the best of times then adverse weather is only going to make things much worse. It's hard for someone who is alone and isolated to keep morale up and as we know this contributes enormously to one's wellbeing. I don't know what the answer is - I can only imagine the millions it would take to address this. But is it something that is part of your plan even on a smaller basis? It's too easy to give up if you are miserable. I have seen it happen. It was very upsetting

what are your thoughts on universal benefits for pensioners (specifically regarding winter fuel payments)? I can see that administration of a means testing scheme might cost as much as it saves but it seems ludicrous that those who can easily afford it are receiving a payment that is simply not needed

Good to be here talking about the issue of excess winter deaths. Many people are not aware of the number of people who die needlessly each year as a result of the cold. I've been running a campaign in parliament over the past few years to raise awareness of the issue and persuade national and local government to take steps to reduce the number of people who die each year. This is something I am passionate about. I have been trying to persuade the Prime Minister to introduce a national strategy to co-ordinate effort across government. Given that he now only has 24 hours left in office, should he not agree today, I will be raising it with his successor, Theresa May. I'm keen to know what you think about this. Will answer as many questions as I can - thanks for taking part.

durhamjen

Why do you feel the need to have a petition when it's something that Ageuk have been researching for a long time?

The work AgeUK are doing is really important and I've been working closely with them on this issue for some time. I launched the petition because as well as researching the issue, we need to encourage the government to take action to reduce the number of excess winter deaths. If you agree and think the public should take action, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131956

JellyBaby

Fear is a motivator. The excess winter deaths in the elderly is a shameful disgrace. Older pensioners, women particularly, are fearful of not being able to pay for continually increasing fuel costs. So why does Baroness Ros Altmann tell us that it would cost too much and it would not be fair for older pensioners to receive the new State Pensions which they have received for a number of years and effectively were better off?

You're completely right that many older people are worried about using their heating because of high fuel costs. You're also right that issues like pensions have an effect on whether older people feel they can afford to heat their homes. That's why I believe any national strategy needs to be introduced across government so that departments like the DWP are working with the department of health and the department for energy and climate change, as well as local government to tackle this issue.

MoBrown

Ok, so there's a petition but HOW exactly are you going to find these people who are affected. Many of them are alone and disconnected.

It's really important that local government is involved in the efforts to reduce excess winter deaths. They are often already working with people who are vulnerable and disconnected and so are well-placed to identify those who are particularly at risk.

With my own local authority, the director of public health has produced a cold weather plan, which co-ordinates activity that takes place locally. This includes not only what the local authority are doing, but also the NHS and Clinical Commissioning Group as well as the voluntary sector.

Smileless2012

I don't understand why the winter fuel allowance is given to all when they reach the required age and not reserved for those who really need it.

Surely it makes sense for everyone to apply for the allowance and it be allocated according to means. The same amount made available would be much better spent on those who really are in need.

Winter Fuel Allowance is a really important measure for tackling fuel poverty among the elderly, but you're right to point out that there are some who potentially don't need the allowance. I think it's a debate that we should have, but actually I think there are more important issues we can address when looking at how to reduce excess winter deaths. Like how we can better insulate homes and how we can bring energy prices down.

petitpois

I'm interested in what Scandinavian countries with colder climates do that is different to here? Do they have more government funding, stronger communities, traditionally stronger family ties? What is it that makes their level of winter deaths in the elderly much lower than ours?

I raised this issue recently in a debate in the House of Commons. We need to look closely at why countries that are much colder than ours have lower levels of excess winter deaths. I think part of the reason is undoubtedly preparation. Scandinavian countries prepare properly for dealing with cold weather by doing things like insulating homes better, whereas in the UK many homes end up being cold because of fuel poverty and poor insulation.

RedBus

Hello Dan

Can't believe Brexit hasn't come up yet! Surely if we leave the EU (and don't have free movement of people into the UK) the supply of low-paid workers willing to look after our older people for pennies is going to dry up. (I'm not saying it's right that people should have to work for pennies - but the truth is that lots of the low-paid carers looking after our older people are economic migrants from poorer EU countries, right?)

Isn't Brexit going to be a disaster for social care?

I think Brexit is certainly going to present challenges for our country and potentially the health and social care system. We haven't actually left the EU yet and I think it's important that we aim to get the best deal possible when negotiating our exit.

In addition to leaving the EU presenting challenges, there are already challenges facing our country such as an ageing population - that won't go away. While people living longer is obviously a good thing, that requires more money to be spent on our health and social care services. It's essential that leaving the EU doesn't prevent us investing to meet those challenges.

meep

I applaud what you are trying to do, but given the events of the last couple of weeks and the fact that both government and opposition are in a total state of disarray do you think they will be too busy trying to untangle the almighty mess to take this on board?

There is huge instability and uncertainty at the moment, as we negotiate the terms of our departure from the EU. Additionally, we will have a new Prime Minister tomorrow and our politics faces significant challenges at the moment.

Despite all of that, it is completely unacceptable that people in our country will die as a result of the cold this coming winter. Therefore I believe we should be doing everything we can to stop these needless and unacceptable deaths. That work must continue whatever else is happening.

mrsph

Given the constant inter generational arguing we keep hearing about all the more so since the referendum, I wondered if anything specific had provoked your interest not only in the excess winter deaths area but also general care for the elderly which I understand is another of your specific concerns.

For me, this is a basic issue of fairness and decency. Despite the economic challenges we face, we are still a wealthy country. Nobody should die as a result of the cold. It seems to me that as a society we have accepted the fact that they do. I don't think we should accept that. I think we should do all that we can to prevent people dying from the cold this coming winter.

I also think this is a basic matter of respect. In other countries around the world, older people are treated with deference and the utmost respect. I think we can learn from that. It might just be a simple thing of keeping an eye out for an elderly neighbour and I will continue to do all I can to work to ensure that the number of people dying as a result of the cold is very significantly reduced.

Izzybee

Dear Mr Jarvis - there was a question on the last thread when you did the mumsnet webchat that didn't get answered because of time so I'm cutting and pasting it here as I am interested in the answer. I believe it was from teetime - "Dan what is your reaction to the report in yesterdays press that the 111 service is causing excess deaths by being slow to respond and giving inaccurate advice and indeed that this has been known about for some time?"

Thank you in advance

It's clear there are widespread concerns about the 111 service and I know that in some areas of the country this service has been rated as inadequate. A number of people have also raised this issue with me locally. I think it's clear that the service must be improved to prevent the lives of patients being put at risk.

I will, again, raise concerns about the 111 service, both locally and nationally with the government.

Izzybee

Also on the last thread were a few questions about flu jabs and how cuts mean many older people can't travel to surgeries to get theirs and surely this must contribute to excess deaths. Presumably this contributes to the excess and must be looked at in addition to fuel etc. How would you like to see this addressed?

I think you're completely right to highlight the importance of flu jabs. I was concerned to see that the government's flu plan was published much later this year than in previous years, and I raised those concerns with the government in the House of Commons. It's crucial that the government ensure the uptake of the flu jab is as high as possible.

kaybh

One thing we have seen with Brexit is older people being blamed for the result (many older people are saying if younger people had actually bothered to vote... But that's another story). I'm interested to know what you think this means for inter generational harmony and also for sympathies towards you excess deaths campaign. I realise the people affected by the latter are older but am still finding the old/young divide generally worrying after the referendum

It's clear following the EU referendum that the country feels more divided in a number of ways. It's crucial that we don't allow these divisions to persist and instead look at how we can unite our country. It is not in anyone's interests to pit the young versus the old and I will certainly be working to make sure that isn't allowed to happen.

ght5264

Theresa May will become PM tomorrow. What are your thoughts on this - both generally and specifically regarding your campaign.......

As Andy Murray said on Sunday, being the Prime Minister is an impossible job. Although Theresa May is clearly from a different party to me, I wish her well and I hope that she will look at introducing a national strategy to reduce the number of excess winter deaths. I will be raising this with her.

CariGransnet

Another one from Twitter -

Does Dan foresee a split in The Labour Party if Corbyn wins?

I don't think this should be about the Labour Party splitting. I think it's about having a more united Labour Party that can hold the government to account and is seen as a credible alternative government.

Carolpaint

There is no easy answer, although I go to homes of friends in their 90s that are warm and toasty, my career experience was that as we age anxiety and ideas of poverty increase. So inspite of adequate income and heating systems many elderly will not be persuaded to keep their homes warm, even putting on the heating for a patient in the community would not help for after you left it would be turned off. Assessment into reasons why a home is bitterly cold is needed.

I think you make a good point. I believe one of the most important things that could be done to reduce excess winter deaths is improve home insulation. Better home insulation would help prevent homes becoming cold and as a result lead to cheaper fuel bills.

I do think that energy prices are still too high and this does prevent some elderly people from heating their homes. I think Ofgen should be tougher in regulating the energy market to ensure that consumer energy prices fall in line with wholesale energy prices and both regulators and government should be looking at how we can ensure people are on the lowest tariffs possible.

damson

Agree with carol* but it also seems to me that another factor in this is isolation. If you find it hard to get out and about at the best of times then adverse weather is only going to make things much worse. It's hard for someone who is alone and isolated to keep morale up and as we know this contributes enormously to one's wellbeing. I don't know what the answer is - I can only imagine the millions it would take to address this. But is it something that is part of your plan even on a smaller basis? It's too easy to give up if you are miserable. I have seen it happen. It was very upsetting

I completely agree that isolation and loneliness are important factors here. When I am knocking on doors in my constituency, I regularly speak to elderly people who have lost their partner who tell me that they are lonely. I've done some work locally with the clinical commissioning group and some charities and community groups to promote opportunities for older people to come together in friendly and welcoming environments. For many older people, community drop in centres offer a real lifeline and an opportunity to get out of the house and meet people. This can have huge value and can reduce the feeling of isolation and loneliness. It can also mean that older people are not sat at home alone shivering in the cold.

AllieGB

what are your thoughts on universal benefits for pensioners (specifically regarding winter fuel payments)? I can see that administration of a means testing scheme might cost as much as it saves but it seems ludicrous that those who can easily afford it are receiving a payment that is simply not needed

I think that some of the universal benefits available to pensioners are really important and provide much-needed support to many elderly people. However, I think you are right that there are always some pensioners who are wealthy enough not to need those benefits. I think this is an issue that should be debated further and that we should keep looking at.

Can I say a big thank you to all those people who posted questions. I will keep on campaigning to reduce the number of excess winter deaths in our country. By their very nature these deaths are avoidable and with better co-ordination nationally and locally we could save thousands of lives this coming winter. If you support my campaign, please sign the petition and raise your concerns with your local MP and local Councillor.

Many thanks, Dan.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131956