Banned from having contact with grandchildren

Assumptions, sorry. Yes, opinion, views, can differ, and can agree to disagree. But if it goes beyond and to extremes, and supports violence or fascism and/or other extreme ideas- then there is a 'fine line'. As said, put yourself in Franco's Spain, or Nazy Germany... at what stage does an opinion becomes so much more.

Smileless2012

I've never said I agree with your mother VS; I don't know her.

I do sadly

Yes VS sometimes, but not always.

Germanshepherdsmum

Thanks for saying you detest me, as a Tory voter, and that I’m an idiot PinkQuartz. Nice.

Not a nice thing to post PQ Take no notice GSM idiots come in all shapes,sizes and political persuasion.
The biggest idiots are intolerant people who see no other views other than their own, they dont listen so dont learn anything.

Sometimes it really is Smileless and the grandparent is just too self involved to see it

I've never said I agree with your mother VS; I don't know her.

As said, no assuptions whatsoever. Just trying to think of examples, and yes, the 'extreme' views, could be from either side.

Not necessarily. Bringing to an end a close relationship a child has with a GP isn't always because the child's feelings are being put first.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Smileless

They put their children's feelings first

Children > granny and grandpa

Every time

Placing more importance on opinion than how close family members feel cuts both ways doesn't it. The same could be said about the OP's D and s.i.l.

Why place more importance on opinion than your close families feelings anyway?

I remember my mother banging on and on about how refugees had iPhones so couldn't be that hard up (like, they weren't just normal people living normal lives until disaster)... On our once yearly trip out with her grandchildren... To the point where I saw my young child running towards a full swing and my mother grabbed my arm to try and hold me from running off and shouted after me "but I just want to tell you my opinion Violet!" All because I'd politely asked not to have this conversation several times.

Zero awareness her grandchild nearly got a swing to the face.

Monologue continued as soon as I was back in range.

Opinions are like pulling your pants down in public sometimes, just keep them in your trousers.

Yes, that’s possible, Houseplantqueen.

Fleurpepper

What if what 'granny and granpa' supports, and votes for- has shattered all your dreams for your future?

I said it before, I know people who have fallen out with parents over Brexit. They had spent all their savings buying a little house in France, and totally renovating it, for holidays, and ready for retirement there. A lot of sweating, hard work and sacrifices. Also learning the language, hours and hours at night school, and in France. Then Brexit happened- they could not retire and move, as their pensions would have been too greatly affected. And now it's too late, they just can't retire there and get into the system. And just can't get their money back either.

Angry and bitter, yes.And as parents totally refuse to see hy, and say they would do it all over again- they said 'no more'.

Ironically, my mother didn't vote for Brexit. Her reasoning was that the country would still need immigrants from somewhere, but at least EU immigrants were white.

Delila

All supposition.

That's fine, you have an opinion, I have an opinion. I stated mine.

I'm not here estranged saying I did nothing wrong, no idea why I'm banned, Child-in-law is coercive or any of the usual twaddle.

BlueBelle

Personally if my parents had been racist or homophobic etc I would have had a good talk with them and told them that I realise everyone’s views may be different but they must never discuss their views, however innocent, in front of the children and Iwould probably not let them be alone with them until I was sure they wouldn’t say anything inappropriate or I was unhappy with
It’s quite telling that the brother who also has the same views as the poster or husband is also banned from seeing the children Something pretty bad must have gone on

I tried that but I don't think my mother was even aware of her own attitudes. She couldn't accept that anybody else would think she was wrong. It wasn't just racism, but deeply entrenched attitudes of bigotry on a number of issues, which I personally found abhorrent. I tried not to be a bad daughter, but I've become aware of a sense of release since she died.

OP may be fair minded and reasonable and thus is contrary to the more narrow views of DD&SIL, I've been thinking this too HPQ.

A realistic possibility that many don't appear to have considered.

What if what 'granny and granpa' supports, and votes for- has shattered all your dreams for your future?

I said it before, I know people who have fallen out with parents over Brexit. They had spent all their savings buying a little house in France, and totally renovating it, for holidays, and ready for retirement there. A lot of sweating, hard work and sacrifices. Also learning the language, hours and hours at night school, and in France. Then Brexit happened- they could not retire and move, as their pensions would have been too greatly affected. And now it's too late, they just can't retire there and get into the system. And just can't get their money back either.

Angry and bitter, yes.And as parents totally refuse to see hy, and say they would do it all over again- they said 'no more'.

Smileless2012

I agree with you maddyone. A lot of assumptions are being made that the OP is racist when there's nothing to support this.

I disagree. Although we must not jump to conclusions of course, I think it is a fair assumption that given the matters of disagreement; BLM and protests around statues; that there is an element of racism and intolerance What we must not assume though, is that it is the OP who has the unpalatable views, OP may be fair minded and reasonable and thus is contrary to the more narrow views of the DD&SiL.

Smileless2012

I agree with you maddyone. A lot of assumptions are being made that the OP is racist when there's nothing to support this.

No, it is an example.

Straunchly anti-vax, or t'other way round?

Agree pinkquartz- and yet, is there no limits. What if you were in Spain, Italy, Germany or Austria at the time of nazis? Would you just have said 'oh it's ok, granny is a bit daft'.

Thanks for saying you detest me, as a Tory voter, and that I’m an idiot PinkQuartz. Nice.

My post is in reply to Norah, not Pinkquartz.

All supposition.

pinkquartz

Wow!
what happened to accepting differences between people?

No wonder we still have wars.......if a bunch of mature women can't get along what hope is there for the planet?
Fact is we don't all see things the same way.

My Nan was racist and as an adult I pulled her up on this.
Her response was heartfelt.
She felt direspected and pushed out of her community for a start.

I didn't agree with her, but I did learn that she had a valid point of view for herself. She had to move to be happier but so what?

I really didn't like the way some PP's assume that their opinions are the right ones and everyone else is wrong. I personally detest the Tories and the idiots who vote them in.

With my Nan I learnt that I can still love someone even with different views.
She never affected me or the way I think but she did help me understand a POV different to my own.

Isn't there a saying by someone like Socrates ? that the pain of an ungrateful child is sharper than a serpents tooth!

My daughter and I disagree on so many issues that I can't believe I brought her up!

Great Post, pinkquartz.

Interesting, this may be just the tip of the iceberg. The straw as it were.

If we were accepting all sort of "silly gran bad behaviour" just to keep peace - racism easily would tip us over to estrangement.

Quite easy really - as GC begins understanding what "silly gran" believes about racism, ultimatum, then estrangement. The end.

No agree to disagree - no room to agree to racism.