Banned from having contact with grandchildren

People often protest when their needs aren't met or they are being disadvantaged in some way.

So the answer most people who agree with the majority of protesters ( who are not violent) would expect is "If those people weren't being marginalised/discriminated against/having their rights ignored, there would not be a protest".

That is the correct answer.

When you go down the route of placing your focus on blaming the protesters or disagreeing with some of their methods, you are (possibly accidentally) defending whatever caused them to be there.

Jenrev The protests I am talking about were in the UK too at that time. I wasn't thinking about the US but the UK.

It is so sad and unnecessary for anyone to behave violently when demonstrations take place. That is all I said, and it caused my daughter to decide to keep the children from us.

I am in the UK. Not American. All I suggested was that people protest in peace not violently. My daughter and her husband both had different views about it. Apparently, my husband and I are racist because we wanted peace, not anger.

Everyone seems to get a label nowadays if they disagree with anything.

You weren't defending racism? How could your daughter hope to work that out? I'd assume parents would ban their children from such views.

Sadly, I don't think suggesting you agree to differ will work here.

There are, after all, some conflicting views than are so grave that they lead to this kind of situation.

I have never tolerated certain political views myself, and it would not have matter to me who expressed them. Admittedly if my parents had suddenly turned racists in their old age, I might have tried suggesting that we just did not discuss politics, but I would not have wanted children listening to such views.

Please, don't think I am accusing you of being racist, but obviously something you or your husband or you both said has caused your daughter and son-in-law grave concern, otherwise they would not have taken this extremely drastic step.

Please, try to move on with your life. Writing letters to the grandchildren that they can be given when they come of age is quite permissible in my book, as is an explanation of what the family quarrel actually was about. I wish my family had explained why we never were allowed to see or visit my cousins - all I ever could glean was that my uncle had offended my mother.

Try to accept that you are not likely to see your grandchildren, I know this is hard, but get help to move on - there are plenty of children in need of an "extra" pair of grandparents, so perhaps you could find a family without a grannie and grandpa to help out now and then?

Jenrev
On the slim chance that you might make a donation to BLM, please read this first.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/02/black-lives-matter-grassroots-lawsuit-global-foundation

Wyllow3

Hithere

Two outrageous stories, US based, posted within one hour difference.... and it is Friday night

Exactly my thoughts.

Hmmm

I mean, that's great how many you have found who agree on this thread Smileless, perhaps you could all petition OPs daughter to change her mind?

Hmm

Not sure that will work or help OP to reconcile at all

Never mind

Unless you've changed your political views, it makes no sense that after having had a relationship with your eldest GC for 4 years, you've now been stopped from having any contact Jenrev.

Your D and her husband will have been well aware of your views, whatever they may be so why as Delia has posted take such an extreme position now? If they've never approved because as it being assumed on this thread you're racist, why allow a relationship to become established in the first place?

Once again it's the children who get caught up in the disagreements between adults.

As children grow they experience many different points of view which they can talk about with their parents and the other adults in their lives as well as their peers.

Good post Delia, Caleo and biglouise. As your post shows Humbertbear, responsible parenting and grand parenting includes discussing political and current affairs and now your GC are old enough to do so, they choose not to spend much time with the GP's whose right wing views they don't agree with.

Also let's add

Boundaries. People have them. No one is so special and important that others must listen to their opinion. Others do not have to listen. They are entitled to any steps that mean not having to listen.

Ignoring that boundary, of a topic another does not want to discuss, will leave them with only the option to walk away.

If anyone places more value in their held opinions or beliefs than the boundaries and feelings of others then that sends a clear message that they value another less than themselves.

We see it all the time in online discussion... opinions thrown about the place but any attempt to humanise yourself or share any personal experience is used to deride, call bias or otherwise accused of trying to manipulate.

This is done by people who place more value on their opinions than they do others feelings and boundaries.

It's just not a sign of a decent empathetic human

I can't really remember the protests being violent. Have I missed something?

My granny was my favourite adult. I adored her. However, I still remember her (very mild for the time) racism.

Not the way any grandparent should behave. The very sad thing is that it is changeable! We can all make a conscious choice to change and educate ourselves.

Of course you're barred from contact with your GC, as well you should be. Racism, even as you may believe it's hidden, is never acceptable.

Of course children need room to make up their own minds. However, some characteristics are protected in this country and any parent has the right to reduce exposure to opinions that don't respect those protected characteristics.

If grandpa were saying that a woman's role were as a housewife and mother in the kitchen and living life that way, I'd be saying if he doesn't change that rhetoric around my children, he doesn't get to see them.

Some things aren't up for debate, some things are enshrined in law in society.

When our children were young they were exposed to a range of ideas and opinions, which they often discussed with us. They learnt to make their own minds up about issues, and this has served them well all their lives.

The parents have taken an extreme position in interrupting their children’s relationship with the grandparents. Once again, we don’t know the full truth, but it’s possible the fault doesn’t all lie on on side.

What we need to be teaching children is that some views are not acceptable

Teaching people that have those views that they are not acceptable is not going to work if it just means either arguing about it or poking fun at it. That's not a positive relationship and nit a good example for childrennwho are learning how to manage relationships in the wider world.

Also we need to teach children that they do not have to put up with certain behaviour otherwise they learn that they should put up with it in their future relationships from partners which is a dangerous piece of advice

Violet Sky, children love jokes. It's good for a child to learn that adults can be very silly and stupid.

Agree VS. 'Silly old granny is racist.'?

How on earth would laughing and joking at silly grandma's views be beneficial to a child?

The far right opinions of grannies and others can often be made into jokes. Joking and gentle teasing take the sting out of bad information.

The only thing I learned as a child having family members with a range of view points is that there were family members I wanted nothing to do with as soon as I realised I had a choice in the matter

We always discuss political issues and current affairs with our GC , as we did with our DC. It’s how I was brought up. The other GPs are very right wing and our GC try to avoid going to see them because they get very upset with their views.

I have friends in the US who are Trump supporters that I have cut off, due to the extremity of their beliefs. I would severely limit family contact with racist family members too. There is no room for racism in modern society.

You are obviously free to hold whatever opinions you like, but you've paid a very heavy price for not moving with the times and seeing that attitudes have changed. Sadly, you also didn't understand the depth of their feeling about this in trying to agree to disagree.

Would making a positive step in the direction they support help? Making a financial contribution to BLM? Undertaking racial and ethnicity sensitivity training/courses? These exist for workplaces so maybe exist for individuals too?

Of course, none of that may work. They may feel their decision was final and refuse to consider a reconciliation. But at least you'll have left no stone unturned.

It's not inordinately difficult fro the parents to make fun of Granny's mildly racist ideas.

Children should be thoroughly socialised and this includes learning how to form independent opinions and feelings, by way of meeting a diversity of people and opinions.

The parents are maybe confusing protecting the children and being unkind to Granny. The latter is not a good lesson for the little ones to learn.

Jenrev, what are the political views that are so opposed? Are you by any chance a far right agitator, or a one-party communist?

It sounds to me as though racist opinions have been expressed and, quite rightly, your daughter does not want her children exposed to them. Even if you have not expressed such views in front of the children as yet, her fear is that in time you will.

One day your grandchildren will be old enough to make up their own minds about what contact they want with their grandparents.

My grandmother was in this position because of a family rift which I will not go into. Her contact with me and my sister was limited by what my father considered appropriate. She had to be very careful not to breach the (sometimes nebulous) rules and was advised by her solicitor to tread very carefully.

Children in those days (1950s) were very little supervised compared to todays helecopter parenting. From the age of 10 I began sneaking off to see my grandmother and deliberately lied to my parents as to where I had been after school (sports practice).

When I told my mother I was leaving home I also announced "Im an adult now and over 21. Theres nothing you can do to stop me. I will also be seeing my grandmother every week."

My parents reaped what they sewed.