Interesting Quote

I very much dislike the way that peoples fears are said to be excuses, and not the real reason that they were afraid to speak up.
Totally not on.

I agree with your first two paragraphs.

It is very convenient for attention to be taken away from these derelictions of duty and possible corrupt behaviour by citing "political correctness" as the reason for inaction

Being afraid to speak up is a big additional problem.

It could, I think, be legitimately argued that it was the lack of political correctness that allowed this "reign of terror" to continue

Depends exactly what you mean by that.

* A council environment that was found to be "macho and bullying" could hardly be described as "politically correct"nor could a policing environment in which it was decided that children were, because of their dress and behaviour, not entitled to protection under the law.*

Not sure. They can be both?
Lots of things in life are not an either or. They can often be both.

What I find shocking is that dozens of professional people had for years been aware of and had witnessed the systematic grooming, terrorising and trafficking for sex of girls as young as 11 years old.

The only agency that had the power to investigate, arrest, and charge these criminals was the police. Yet one police officer had said of a 12 year old, who it had been established had had sex with 5 Asian men, that it had been "100% consensual in every incident." He and some of his colleagues were either unaware that in law a child cannot consent to sexual activity and to flout this law is a serious crime, or they felt that "deviant" children (as some police officers had described them) were not worthy of protection under the law. What is perhaps even more damning is that the head of the inquiry said that there had been "evidence of collusion between police and perpetrators." A researcher - who had persuaded a girl to make a complaint to the police and who was suspicious about the way the matter had been dealt with - wrote to the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire, but had been ordered by the District Police Commander "never to do such a thing again".

It is very convenient for attention to be taken away from these derelictions of duty and possible corrupt behaviour by citing "political correctness" as the reason for inaction. It could, I think, be legitimately argued that it was the lack of political correctness that allowed this "reign of terror" to continue. A council environment that was found to be "macho and bullying" could hardly be described as "politically correct", nor could a policing environment in which it was decided that children were, because of their dress and behaviour, not entitled to protection under the law.

Absolutely. I find the whole situation quite shocking.

There are a lot of instances where you feel you cannot express your true feelings because of political incorrectness.

Sometimes political correctness is simply another term for mass self- righteousness. Or head in the sand attitudes.

Eloethan's post is a written example of how people are not being properly listened to.

You can only guess that someone who says they were afraid of being called racist is using it as an excuse.

I can see how it could very well be true that people held back from saying what they really thought.

It will be interesting to see what Trevor Phillips has to say.

If the summary of Eleothan's post is as GrannyTwice says, then that means that she is probably dismissing thousands or even hundreds of thousand of people saying the same thing? The fear of being called racist?

I would like to see what Eleothan says. No one can answer on behalf of her unless they actually are her.

Well said GrannyTwice. As ever, Eloethan summarises this so well.

Of course Eleo isn't- what she explained ( much more eloquently than me) is that fear of being called racist is a very convenient excuse when the real reason is that you are misogynist/classist/idle/selfish

I havnt got time to answer all that post at this point.

But you are dismissing everyone, up and down the country who express fears of being called racist?

soontobe It could be argued that they would say it because, using the Rotherham example, what sounds better:

The reason you and your colleagues didn't do anything about vulnerable girls as young as 11 being groomed, deliberately hooked on drugs, terrorised and sexually exploited by vicious criminal gangs was because:

(a) "Political correctness" meant that you and all the other professionals you worked with were living under a culture of "political correctness" and you believed that your personal and professional integrity would be at risk if you raised concerns - and in any event, even if you did, nothing would be done.

Or one, or a combination of, the following reasons:

(b) You weren't aware that a child under 16 cannot legally be considered to have given consent and you were of the opinion that these girls who got drunk, took drugs and hung around older Asian men were promiscuous and had willingly entered into a sexual relationship with these men.

(c) Your department did not have the resources to deal with complex matters of this nature and could barely manage with the ordinary day-to-day workload, so you chose to ignore the problem.

(d) Unlike for some crimes, there were no targets for crimes relating to child exploitation so you did not wish to waste your time and energy pursuing matters that would not benefit your own performance record or that of your force.

The linked report in The Telegraph gives full details of the way in which concerns that were raised by parents and other individuals were ignored. There was a reference to fear of being called racist but, given the scale of the problem and the clear evidence of serious crimes being committed, I personally feel it is a pretty feeble excuse and one that is unprovable.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057622/Rotherham-child-sexual-exploitation-Victims-raped-beaten-and-doused-in-petrol-if-they-threatened-to-tell.html

I dont see why?

Well as someone once said 'they would say that wouldn't they?'

I actually think that the continual ridiculing of the idea that language should reflect principles of respect and inclusiveness tends to reinforce discriminatory behaviour and practices

It may to a certain extent. Though not exactly sure how.
But there are now numerous people in numerous places of society saying that they have felt the need to not say anything, when they know they should have spoken up or spoken out.

Never mind. Wait for the programme.

petallus I agree with you there.

soontobe I think there are a number of reasons why so many scandals have been brushed under the carpet. It might be a popular - and convenient - notion in some quarters to blame "political correctness" for inaction. I actually think that the continual ridiculing of the idea that language should reflect principles of respect and inclusiveness tends to reinforce discriminatory behaviour and practices.

In many of the scandals we have heard about, those in dereliction of their duties were quick to try and deflect their failings onto someone else. In the Hillsborough tragedy, for instance, rather than admit to making basic errors in crowd control, the police concocted a narrative - based on negative stereotypes - in which the crowd were responsible for the tragedy. In the Rotherham and other similar scandals, the children involved were viewed by some, and in particular the police, as "bad apples". The inquiry discovered that these girls were spoken of in derogatory terms and were treated as if they were responsible for their abuse and exploitation.

There is also some evidence to suggest that several inquiries involving powerful people were "shut down" at a very high level and those making the allegations were warned to back off.

None of these things are to do with "political correctness". In fact they demonstrate an absolute disregard for the notion of respect and equality of treatment.

Eleothan it was your reference to 'those who can no longer go to football matches and shout racist comments' that prompted my remark about chavs and yobs.

That does conjure up a certain stereotypical image does it not? Football is often seen as a typically working class sport frequented by a certain type of person.

I think this is an important point. It is not just uneducated working class types who are racist though they may not be so adept at hiding their prejudices.

I think ginger haired people have the worst of it. They need all the PC protection they can get.

It could be I suppose. I hadnt thought about specifics, and wasnt meaning specifics. But I take your point.
In future, perhaps I myself, can say the same things, but say not in relation to disability as far as I know.

Thank you soon - but do you get my point that the way PC is rubbished by some is far too sweeping?

I dont know of any instances personally, where pc has gone too far relating to disability GrannyTwice. None at all.

So it's ok to post about things we know nothing about but not what we do? Goodness me!

Partly because of the way disabled people are treated today I am able to lead a rich, varied, useful and interesting life. I am able to earn an extremely good income in addition to my various pensions. I dont focus on the things I can't do although some of those make me sad sometimes - especially when it affects what I can do with my dgc.

Why do you have to make a discussion personal to you? Yes, ok. Mention it once perhaps, if you have to. But don't overdo it.