Is it really assault?

Hooty while I am extremely sorry about the sub-standard care that your mother received, making sweeping generalisations is never a good idea. The nurses of today are as varied a group as those of yesterday - and they have to contend with more bureaucracy and paperwork on one shift than a nurse would have handled in a month 20 years ago - with the threat of disciplinary action (or even losing their career) if any box is left unticked or form unsigned.
As with so many other professions (e.g. teaching) the paperwork is destroying the purpose of the job that they trained so hard for.
Many nurses are also finding themselves caring for patients with dementia when they actually trained for another role - a consequence of an ageing population plus the closure of many geriatric wards. They are very aware that they need specialist training - but this is not seen as a priority...
Add to this the ever-present danger of being injured by a patient (usually not deliberate) or a relative (always deliberate) and you will see why nurses are leaving the profession in droves.

DH is quite regularly bitten in rhe course of his work but reports it to no-one and sees it as an occupational hazard.

He may be fine about that kittylester but the next person may not. The likelihood of a patient biting should be recorded for all the reasons given above. Its not OK to be bitten in the course of your work.

SueDoku, I agree with what you say, please don't generalise about such a large group of people. Sadly the issues reported in the media tend to be about the problems and all the good care goes unreported.
Injuries should never be seen as an occupational hazard, staff need to report them and receive training in how to deal with such incidents. There will always be such issues when working with people with mental health problems and sadly these carers have the least funding and training it seems.

Perhaps Kittylester's husband is a dentist. That would explain the frequency of the occurrence and his attitude.

In law, you need two factors for anything to be called an assault. The men's rea which is the guilty mind and the actus reus which is the guilty act. Many elderly people won't have both factors for it to be an assault and I very much doubt that any hospital would be able to make it stick.

My husband's only recourse would be reporting to the police. Sledge hammer and nut come to mind. People with advanced dementia are not going to benefit from any sort of intervention.

The management of your husbands care home should be recording 'incidents'. They should have a clear system for this. The Care Quality Commission would be interested. There are such clear implication regarding staffing levels and training that brushing this under the carpet amounts to negligence.

Er, my husband doesn't have a care home.

I agree that these incidents should be recorded just in case of any problems that the person on the receiving end has further down the line. But I don't think they should be recorded as assaults,if the person has dementia,and/or they are frail and elderly. I don't see how a person who has dementia could be prosecuted for this sort of thing.

Sorry kitty you had said that he works with dementia patients so I assumed it was in a care home. Where does he work?

Assumptions are very dangerous Jane. Why would you assume that?

We cant ask personal questions on here
Jane10.

Similar to when I heard that teachers were 'being assaulted by pupils as young as 4'. Shock horror reaction initially, which rapidly subsided when I realised I had only ever been assaulted by reception class children. I just hadn't thought of upset small children trying to kick, punch or bite me (and sometimes getting a blow or kick in) as assault. As far as I was concerned I was restraining them and getting on with the lesson. This was many decades ago I hasten to add. Not many TAs then so I'd remove child's shoes, tuck him/her under my arm and get on with teaching.

Bez, we can ask personal questions, but you don't have to answer them.

I made the same assumption as Jane10 It did sound as though he worked in a care home.

To go back to the 50% of assaults figure, this is probably just the top level of information. I'm sure the data will be broken down into the kind of assault, which at the end of the day just means someone got hurt. The 50% will be broken down into categories and subcategories, according to the circumstances. That probably doesn't make much of a headline though.

I also disagree about the calibre of today's nurses. In general they are far better trained to deal with the challenges of the job than years ago. What is a problem is health assistants being used to replace the old RENs hasn't worked out very well. Plus of course, the issue of using so many agency staff creates so many problems. There's always been lazy people in hospitals and I can't imagine that changing any time soon because it's just human nature.

kitty unless your DH is his own boss, does he not at least keeping a record of physical and verbal 'incidents'? If he's not bothered about protecting himself from accusations (and he may well feel like that), surely you can see why others should be aware of the situations that crop up in his work? What if he was unable to attend his patients/clients and someone else had to take his place? I'm not trying to pry, just agreeing that given the way this discussion has developed, it was a reasonable assumption to make that your DH worked in a care home, or at least in a care giving environment. My neighbour works as a carer for someone, staying with them for two 24 hour periods every week. He still has to follow strict guidelines about his and his client's safety.

Eirel I wouldn't compare the upset children of some years ago with some of the children now entering reception classes,there may be some who are kicking because they are upset/need a cuddle, there are others who are deliberately kicking or throwing things at staff because they know it hurts. In some cases it is most definitely assault. They are very troubled children and more and more of them are appearing in schools.

So, if they are troubled children, is it fair to accuse them of assault?

I have reread my posts and at no time did I suggest that dh has a care home, works in a Care home or, even, lives in one.

He works for the nhs but is self employed. He visits care homes, secure units, hospitals and any other people who cannot easily access services. The people he treats are often demented, confused and distressed. Anyone doing his job would expect to meet similar conditions and logging incidents would be a complete waste of time. As it is, no one else in this (very wide) area does what he does.

Yes kittylester because at some point someone has to set boundaries. I'm not suggesting that they be prosecuted but they certainly need help and if the assault isn't treated seriously they are unlikely to get any.

Bad behaviour cannot be tolerated but surely 'assault' is part of a bigger picture and shouldn't be singled out.

If you are hit in the face by a flying brick, or hit by a chair thrown across the classroom it is assault. It is dangerous both for staff and other children it must be properly recorded and dealt with. What are you suggesting it should be called?

I'm not suggesting it is called anything. It is bad behaviour by troubled people who require help and understanding not labels.

Isn't this yet another case of the news media saying things for effect?