Labelling Children

We also now have groups of "high achievers" in our classes, who get extra input - which I think is great, but also leads to an even more competitive attitude to results among the middle group of children who may not be as bright (the high achievers are treated as if they were super children) but who have to work hard to get average to good grades.
Is it me, or is this worrying? I can see it killing the love of learning for so many.

I will let someone more eloquent than me reply to this.

I can't actually be bothered to respond. I sincerely hope the OP isn't really a teacher.

With an attitude like that Lisalou YOU should not be a teacher and in charge of children!!!

It's that kind of attitude that made my DD take her children out of school to home educate them. She had to fight for a diagnosis for her eldest son, as the school head teacher was determined that he was just an anxious angry little boy. He was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome aged five. He's a delightful boy apart from his meltdowns, and the school had no idea how to teach him. He has two brothers, one has high functioning autism, the other has ADHD with a lot of the elements of Aspergers. They moved to a small country school when GS 2 started. They were just as mystified about how to teach them! They are flourishing now, and learning well. I am immensely proud of my daughter and her determination to give them a good education.

I think the interest of teachers in the overall well being of their pupils educationally and with behavioural issues, support and mentoring etc have improved massively in recent years.

If only Dyslexia was known about in the 1950s 60s I would have managed better in school and my difficulties in writing and organising work would have been recognised, I would have had a much easier time and not left feeling I was lazy about my appalling hand writing, spelling and punctuation.

As for anyone with a disabilty they were kicked off into sometimes pretty rubbish special education.

The children with what is now encompassed by the neurological conditions such as ADHD, Aspergers etc now can get much better help within the early years at school. The ADHD pupils were referred to under the educational lable of "Malajusted" or "Educationally subnormal."

I was very happy at 50ys old when the OU "labled me" as Dyslexic. I then realised I was not stupid.

Lisalou in this instance I really can't say Welcome to the forum.You should do some reading on the subject, and I worry that you really are a teacher!

Your post is going to be very unpopular Lisalou partly because it's the kind of subject that most people, not being professionals, can only relate to with personal anecdotes. Having watched my children go through 35 years of the UK education system I have wondered myself about the growth of diagnosed conditions, changes in what is considered acceptable behaviour and changes in the kind of discipline that teachers can exert.

The same people who complain about lack of respect for the old, entitlement in the younger generation and the growth of selfishness in society will defend unruly children on the basis of some condition or other. The top performing comprehensive my children attended in a university city with a high middle class intake was eye opening. It took a while for the truth of what lessons were like to leak home but the normality of rudeness to teachers, constant noise as children disregarded the teachers while they talked and played about, children throwing objects across the room and at the teachers, children simply listening to iPods or spending the lesson with their heads on the desk were the norm. The teachers had sanctions of course but clearly many lessons were crowd control and this was a GOOD school.

This may not connect with your posting but something has gone wrong with the way many young people feel they can behave along with many parents being blind to the behaviour of their children and woe betide the person who tries to suggest otherwise. I feel sorry for teachers and can't imagine why anyone enters the profession these days. They have become completely undermined administrators. I know quite a few retired teachers whose last few years were described as sheer hell.

Lisalou I agree with you ! I think children are being over diagnosed / labelled with ASD/Autism - my GS is one and was diagnosed at 5 . I would be interested to hear why there is a huge increase in children with learning disabilities , one or two in each class I believe, from a teacher . My GS is a bit different , on the plus side he has a wonderful and inventive way with words , is very affectionate and intelligent but is disruptive in class , anxious and worries about all manner of things . I won`t go into the history too much but he did have a very traumatic few early years and I feel this has played a part in the way he behaves and this diagnosis .

Azie09,well said.although you will never convince some.Far too many labels today.No wonder there's a shortage of teachers.

Nope, I don't agree. I'm another who hopes you are't a teacher, or that if you are, my grandchildren don't end up in one of your classes.

f77ms you have given a list of all the behaviours that are typical of a child on the autistic spectrum.
Without a diagnosis, he would be left to fight his way through a world he hardly understands, and then be miserable and probably expelled from school.
Early traumatic years ( not lived in a war zone I expect?) cannot give a diagnosis of autism, the tests they have ( especially in play, and how they react) will not give a mis diagnosis to a simply shy and anxious child.
Having a label is the first step to getting help and realising what is actually happening both for the child and the parents.
the National Autistic Society is very helpful and has lots of material for you to read, it will help you understand your DGS. I have always been close to my DGS but without knowledge of his autism and the best way to deal with him it would have led to escalating anger all round.
They do not diagnose lightly believe me.

Calling a child lazy/cocky is labelling them in the most cruel way , you are no teacher

I agree with Azie09. I sometimes feel that giving a child a label also gives an excuse - not everyone of course, because I know that there are children with genuine problems who should be given all the help available. We are however missing another reason for going to school, learning not only the three 'rs' but living together hopefully in harmony which includes good manners, and respect for other peoples' property and those in charge.

Lisalou another supporter here, but not getting involved ( we've been down this road before, a few years ago.)
Except one point - to be allocated funds for extra help a child has to have a label, official diagnosis. That's how it was in my day working in this area, same now as far as I know.

I am nervous about the label 'gifted and talented' which has been applied to two of my GC. I wonder if such a label puts extra pressure on some children to excel. I can remember children in my primary school class who came top in tests time after time but faded in secondary school.

My son has AS, diagnosed when he was 12. We always told him it was a signpost, not an excuse ie to help others understand him. School was a long hard road for him.
It is not easy to get a diagnosis, or extra support. As a retired SENCo I have quite a bit of experience of 'the system' and friends who still teach tell me it hasn't got easier.

So maybe blame 'the system'?
An unforeseen consequence - parents having to push to get their child labelled in order to obtain support for them.

I also agree with both Lisalou and Azie09. To say that there are far too many children with 'labels' does not make anyone a bad teacher. A good teacher is one who knows about the difficulties some children have and treat them accordingly but does not need any labelling of those children. In my experience there are some parents who will go to any length to get their child 'labelled' as it can give an excuse for bad behaviour, get more help in school and also with external exams. Having a 'label' can also mean that a child's inability to do something is concentrated on to the detriment of what they can do. And before I am jumped on I do not mean that they should only do English and not bother with maths if they find it difficult. I had some children in my classes who had 'labels' which had no bearing on my subject and they managed to do the same work as everyone else but I was expected to treat them differently. They loved being treated the same.
I will now go and find my hard hat and get behind the sofa.

I meant to add that I do know there are some children who do have problems of one sort or another who need lots of support and help but it is getting difficult to know what 'normal' means any more.

As a non-teacher it seems to me that there are two issues.
Firstly are these conditions more prevalent, or is it simply that diagnosis is better?
Secondly does the diagnosis help the child in any way?
If children and their parents are helped by increased resources to manage their conditions better then that can only be a good thing.
But if the label leads to a fatalistic view of the condition which limits their potential, then it is not.

No need for a hard hat ( not from me anyway) I just think it's sad that there is so little understanding of children on the autistic spectrum.
Perhaps those of us with knowledge of it ( first hand) can see that there is every reason for a label.First for the understanding of the parent, also of the child, as to why they are different, are acting up and in every way making life Hell for others.Second, so that access to the right school, an autism unit or autism school will be forthcoming, and to apply for home visits from social workers.
When the child is still young, parents have no idea about how things will develop and without a label ( diagnosis) there will be no help.
Do not imagine that autism/ Aspergers just produces rather quirky children, it can turn your life upside down and be a nightmare, and they can be very violent both to parents and grandparents/ carers, other children and themselves.
It needs managing, and aquiring a label is the first step.

I am in two minds about labels.My DGS1was given one aged two and a half. There is no doubt it has been very helpful in getting the support he needs at primary school but I am worried about how it will affect him in the job market.I am anxious that he will not be seen as unemployable which would be totally unacceptable.

Autism is noit a DISability, it's a different ability!