Osborne's Budget - looks like pensioners will lose out the most

flolinnan what you are quoting is a myth - one of many circulating about asylum seekers. There are other threads where this has been discussed. Here's one useful mythbusting document that was produced in Leicestershire, which demonstrates that asylum seekers and refugees receive a lot less than some people have been led to believe, and also gives a context to why people come to an enlightened country like ours for asylum (well....some are enlightened!)

www.leicestershiretogether.org/asylum_seekers_and_refugees.pdf

I'm sure you are right Carol and will enjoy watching the comments.

I agree with Anagram about the press; they really are very distructive. I know I could easily be defending any flavour of government if we were getting such extreme headline grabbing reporting.

Australia is a wonderful country Flolinnan - I would think that though because that's where my wonderful son, lovely DIL and two much loved grandchildren live. However, it has always been fiscally very conservative (with a small "c") and because of this they are not feeling the downturn as much as we have. There is always another side though and, as you can imagine, you would find the culture very different. For instance, there is no NHS as we know it (free at the point of need) and you would need some medical insurance. Also, again because they are quite conservative about paying benefits, you will not get a state pension (universal in this country according to your contributions) if your income after retirement is above a certain level. As for asylum seekers, they do get a fortnightly payment if they land in Australia. I would think it is probably more difficult to get there than here which would naturally limit the numbers.

The flat rate weekly benefit for those people who are seeking asylum status is £250 and they haven't contributed to our taxes at all and they receive free NHS treatment, its about time the government started looking after those who have and who still are contributing to our tax system, we need to take a close look at how this issue is handled by the likes of Australia, I have sympathy for those seeking asylum but not at the cost of british citizens and our quality of life.

Stick around Gracesgran and you will see there is more balance to the discussions and such a wide range of topics on which we both agree and disagree. Having discussed government policy and tax cuts with so many different people, many of whom are tories, I think it's generally true that most people are critical of the government as you would expect in a recession, not just the 'lefties.' I find there are many liberal people on here, and traditionalists with conservative views (with a small 'c'), and there are no overtly campaigning socialist 'lefties' - only people who are happy to indicate where their political views lie. It isn't a political site. If a Labour government was in power at present, I imagine there would be just as much critique and criticism of their policies and tax cuts.

Ummm. Recently joined Gransnet but not very sure about whether it's for me. I was hoping to find some really useful information but, with a couple of exceptions on here the comments all seem to be very left wing and anti-government. At the moment, as far as I can see there is talk about Granny "bashing" but also very rich charity givers "bashing", pasty maker "bashing", parent "bashing", public sector employee "bashing", caravan makers "bashing", benefit claimant "bashing" and the "bashing" the long term sick. It seems to me this shows just how the government has spread the cuts it must make (even the opposition says there must be cuts - just not that one) over all the areas where it funds to provision or collects the taxes. You cannot cut the benefits of those who don't receive them nor can you simplyfy the taxes of those who don't earn enough to pay them so it may seem unfair when it affects you but the cuts are affecting everyone. By the way, I don't see myself as particulary pro or anti Government but do like to understand the details.

Well done Carol,we must all vote at all elections to get rid of this uncaring Government.They are in for a shock in May.

I think it's the media that has been responsible for a lot of the stirring! As has been said on another thread, they've got it in for the government at the moment.

I've been thinking, does any one think that perhap's the goverment has stirred up the petrol crisis to get us to forget about the budget, Me I've still got my memory board

I agree that voting is the way to register your feelings but Labour seemed more Tory than Tory when they were in, with regard to taxation on this and that, so there's not much of a choice these days...

I agree that there seems to be a move to make us all feel we are obliged to help sort out this mess, kind of divide and conquer, whilst the rich avoid tax. It was highlighted when people began to ask whether George Osborne would benefit from the removal of the 50% tax rate and we were told that income tax is 'private' - not when you are fleecing the population at large and making them pay for the worst excesses of banking, lax banking regulation, and the rich looking after themselves it isnt... It's one thing to have ISAs, but its far different to get away with what Sir Philip Green is openly flaunting at the moment!

mumster
Doctors standing for election! Aren't we divided enough?
Ask 2medics for their opinions and you'll get 3 responses

Is the chancellor relying on Pensioner's having poor memories when the next election comes alomg. Me I've got a memory board

Welcome POGS - I hope you enjoy chatting with us all some more. We can get very heated under the collar every now and again, but we also play nicely (well....some of us do, others have 'virtual mad moments' and then have to keep a low profile to hide their blushes - not me, of course!!) - all really good fun

I really hate all this my generation are worse off, or better off than yours; we are taking or don't want to take money away from our grandkids....

I think it is called divide and rule: you set sections of society against each other and they take their eye off the ball; those who are really doing well out of our hard work, whatever age we are are laughing all the way to the bank!

On a slightly different subject, I've just read that representatives from doctors' associations are considering standing in Coalition marginal seats. Now, that's an interesting idea - I'm voting for Carol.

I am a newby to gransnet and a virgin 'silver surfer'. Thank you to carol and gillian 77 for your messages. I hope I don't annoy anyone but I do look forward to having adault debate with my peers. Well done gransnet for giving us this opportunity to get things off our chest in a respectable manner, my husband is oh so releived!

I wholeheartedly agree with Carboncareful that ideally we should vote for whatever measures/party will do the most good. Not sure how many of us do though. I hope I do but if it was at great expense to myself I'm not sure I would. That is because I want to leave as much of my estate as I can to my children and grandchildren who are poor.

Not me - I have no savings to speak of now. I do have a house.

Come on girls, own up, how many of you who've been complaining about tax avoidance have got ISAs then?!! We're all in it together!!

ISAs, to quote the government, are '......particularly good news for people on higher incomes who are taxed at the higher rate on all their savings and investment income. Even investing in a low or nil-yielding ISA defers paying the higher rate'

I wish people wouldn't judge tax increases or decreased by how they affect themselves. How they affect you personally is just not the point.
This applies also to most things political.
As a child my father drilled into us that voting was for what did the most good, what helped the poor, what was best for the country and so on....
This has to be the morally correct way to go about the business of voting.

Well said, Pogs, couldn't agree more. As for tax avoidance, I bet there's a few of us on here doing it!! I think they call it ISAs, don't they?!!

I'm happy to pay my taxes POGS. The argument I have with the budget/chancellor/government is that they have been applied unfairly. Child tax credits have recently been reduced, too, and that isn't fair. Not, when it's in the context of tax avoidance by many very wealthy people who can hide their untaxed money off-shore. If all that revenue came in and the wealthy paid a relevant amount of tax, then there would be no need to penalise those on the lower end on the tax scale, whose 20% as a percentage of their income is far higher than the paltry nothing that many in the 15% bracket of high incomes bother to pay. We can't get accountants to hide our money where it can't be taxed. If we're 'all in this together' then let's see exactly that happening.

My husband and I are quite happy to pay the so-called Granny Tax. There I've said it!.Churchill made the tax break for pensioners in the 1920's when the supposed average living age was 59. Why should we pay less tax on our income than our hard working children who do not qualify for benefits such as free prescriptions etc.Those pensioners who are either too poor or too rich cannot complain as they were never involved in the first place. The group of pensioners who are affected receive two pensions and in the vast majority of cases will own their own home and be financially secure. I do accept the valid arguemant "Well I paid my taxes and worked hard all my life",I did too. Why is it though we expect to be treated as a more valuable citizen than the people doing the same thing now. I am amazed how the left are now new right and the right are now the new left. There is a lot of political grandstanding on this matter. If George Osborne had gone the other way and increased the rate for pensioners I bet the media and certain political parties would have accused him of unfairness and demanded he brought us in line with the squeezed middle earner and families, accusing him of looking after the rich.

thanks sue

You've made a good point Carol. Many of the posts on Mumsnet are ironic, frivolous, tongue in cheek, brief and deliberately provocative. And sometimes fun!

Nothing like our posts which are thoughtful, insightful and genuine when the topic demands it.

I don't agree with generalising from the specific (although I do it myself on occasion and berate myself for doing it), but if you are a regular reader and contributor to Mumsnet, you'll understand the different culture of those forums, the hastily written responses, and the willingness of some to jump on bandwagons and not challenge thinking, whereas on here there is thoughtful, considered contribution on serious issues, usually done on a laptop or PC rather than on an iphone. I grant that these views have been posted, but reading the thread demonstrates there is little follow-through of discussion and some posters' comments are just downright gratuitously insulting and rude.

I prefer to read those responsible comments made on Mumsnet, which show the poster has a balanced view, is open to other information, and knows what's going on in the world.

I don't set much store by those provocative comments referred to. If someone's personal experience is that their parents are lazy so-and-so's who have hardly ever worked, contributed little to society, and bring in a tidy income without any effort being put in, then they are going to make such negative observations. It doesn't mean that the whole pension-eligible group is like that. It interests me to know more about those posters, too - if they have had hard-working grandparents who have given more than one could ask by fighting for their countries , bringing up families who turn out to be feckless or lazy, then miraculously the Mumsnet generation of those families turn out more like their grandparents than their lazy baby-boomer parents, that doesn't quite fit, does it? Wouldn't the parents also have that work ethic, usually?