Black Faced Morris Dancers Banned at ShrewsburyFolk Festival

Political correctness was always in danger of becoming a disparaging term. It is so similar to "observing the letter of the law" rather than "the spirit of the law".

It was a white person who complained only.

But political correctness can go to far, and cause damage in itself.

I can't think anyone on here would deliberately go out to upset someone or hurt someone's feeling by being insensitive or thoughtless.

However sometimes we may inadvertently upset people though our ignorance. When attention is drawn to why we have caused someone to be upset most would apologise and avoid causing that hurt again.

In the case of Morris Dancing I don't suppose that those that black up have any intention of upsetting anyone..they are merely carrying on tradition. It would appear that this tradition is based on 'camouflage' rather than any intention of pretending to be a black person. So nobody needs to be upset.

If however someone is taking the pi** out of black people (or any other group) deliberately or through ignorance then it needs challenging.

The use of 'political correctness' has become a disparaging term but without it racism /sexism/anti gay attitudes etc etc would still be more rife.

I am staying in Maldon, Essex for a couple of days and on the quay this evening were a host of Morris dancers in a variety of costumes. Some of the women had white jeans ,not very traditional! Some of them had red raggedy jerkins with feathery hats and half red, half black faces. What's that about? I think some mixed race native Americans might be offended? They were quite good BTW

Apropos of absolutely nothing Japanese women used to black their teeth with soot as a sign of beauty( according to my reading of novels about Japan)

Haha, gj! Professional Grievance Generators, Inc., much?

You wouldn't stop a cafe serving liver and bacon with mashed potatoes and green peas.

Not the same thing at all. You can select the people who come into your dining room, it is not a public space/place.

You wouldn't invite all the neighbourhood and visitors to share a meal with you. (Well, I wouldn't!)

It is Ana if you invite people to share it with you.

was in the wrong place

We don't live near there any more belladonna
Hope you enjoy it!

See you there jalima...love the horn dance...traffic doesn't tho !!!!

I realised that after a bit, Ana, but I was in full flow by then. Didn't want to interrupt the muse.

(My analogy post was directed at granjura, btw)

Another analogy then - captured Allied servicemen suffered dreadfully in Japanese prisoner-of-war camps. I knew more than one, none of them could speak of their experiences.

Japanese geisha girls traditionally have very white faces. Are these depictions racist abuse of "whites" ?

Would the veteran servicemen be traumatised at posters advertising Japanese films with geisha characters? Of course, almost all of them are now dead, but should the feelings of their living relatives be considered when a film is being promoted, as the feelings of living relatives of past slaves are considered?

Is their memory sullied by depictions of white faces by the descendants of their torturers?

If the fact that it was a tradition long before WW2 were better known, would some people STILL insist that the women were made-up in tasteful shades of pink? No, I suspect that the cry would be that old tradition should be respected.

Another - my food hate is marzipan, and the peel you get in mincemeat. At Christmas, I am everywhere offered traditional fare, whether at friends houses or in restaurants and cafes. I quietly pass on the cake (marzipan) and mince pies (peel). I don't expect my hostess to keep them out of sight until I have gone home. If she pressed one upon me and insisted that I eat it, like Granjura with the liver I would feel sick, but with my knowledge of the Christmas traditions the sight of other people tucking in doesn't freak me out.

I think there should be more information about black faces and less assumption that it is ALWAYS something that someone is entitled to complain about and get banned, whatever its origins. Otherwise there is a very real danger that one group becomes a sacred cow and all other groups are sacrificed to it. In the long run, that sets them up as a target for resentment - which is the reverse of what action against racism is aiming for.

Your dining room isn't a public space either.

your fridge is not a public space, is it? And guests don't usually go and have a rumble through your fridge- do they?

Not a good analogy at all, IMO!

(Welcome back again, granjura...)

And should she stop buying kidneys too, or making a blackcurrant jelly, because at a quick glance they could be mistaken for liver?

Yes, but should your neighbour stop ever buying liver "just in case^ you should drop in and look in the fridge?

perhaps link to another previous thread about food and guests.

If you love liver, and you know some of your guests may not enjoy it, or find it impossible to eat and make them physically sick (like me) would you serve them liver for dinner- knowing it may upset them- and say 'I love liver, and just can't see why they can't love it too- so there'.

We live in a very different society to the one we were born in, most of us - and I think it is fair we adjust to new circumstances, and sharing our lives with different people. Even if the tradition is about soot and not about race- sadly there have been so many examples of blackened faces (gollywogs, man servant ashtrays, etc, etc) which were clearly linked to our slave owners' heritage- but there is no harm in trying to anticipate how others would perceive it.

We've agreed it was an over-reaction I think. We've agreed it would be a good idea to give an explanation about the origins- I believe.

So why keep on saying 'it's silly' and there is no issue (which I do find condescending btw) No issue for me, no issue for you- fine- but an issue possibly not just for the one who complained (over-reaction we all agreed) - but for others we now share our country with, be they citizens, immigrants or tourists.

Hear hear

Why though if it is in context and has no racist element.

I go back to the point that because 'some' people deem to see prejudice/racism when there is none intended they actually cause more friction over the subject.

Why do we as individuals have a right to tell others what to do? What makes one person feel superior to another in telling them what to do?

There is undoubtedly a crossing of the Rubicon scenario that could clearly be seen as racial prejudice but it has gotten to the stage that there is no common sense nor understanding given over the matter.

Other examples would be ' just one person' finds a t.v program or advert upsets their frailty so the program is cancelled or an apology made, Why? The one person in our society has permanently got the upper hand and it is without doubt causing more harm than good, yet they get away with it. I swear some people look for the next opportunity to complain. This is what has happened to the likes of Shrewsbury Council, they have learnt to fear the repercussion of ignoring the one person as the other few thousand are known to sit back, grumble and take it on the chin.

Whilst this story is hardly on the lines of say Rotherham it is time the majority fought back against the one but political correctness has got a strangle hold and I for one find it can be very damaging to our society.

thatbags I have already said I agree that IF the origin is that of disguise there is no problem &that using soot rather than full black make up would be totally appropriate.

I have said previously when I feel it is wrong to dress-up / pretend to 'be' a person from another race/ethnicity/nationality. Context/purpose and reason is all!