Is this really the best answer to poor language development at 4 yrs old?

Eloethan, I remember Cameron standing in a tv interview, talking about how many new family centres his government planned to open.
I was (inevitably) shouting at the telly "liar, how many have you closed". Shouting at the telly/radio is the first sign you need to take the dog a walk.

Apparently, as many as 1,000 Sure Start Centres have been closed since the Conservatives/Conservative Coalition came to power. Surely these weren't all in "middle class" areas, serving middle class families? No doubt some middle class parents/carers did use them but it isn't only "working class" people who might need help with parenting.

It's all about prioritising, as another thread suggested. This government's priority has always been to protect and promote the interests of big business and to transfer public assets to private organisations which collect the profits for themselves but leave any losses to be paid by the public purse.

It depended on the area where the centre was based of course. Cameron's attack on Sure Start as being colonised by the middle classes may have been the case where he lived, it certainly wasn't in the very deprived areas I worked in the north west.
Middle class mothers aren't immune to post natal depression, isolation or domestic abuse are they. If Sure Start could help them through, that's got to be good for society.]
The centres I was involved with did a huge amount of work to engage fathers in their programmes, with a fair bit of success.

Mamie - you're so right about the role of father's. I'm another who worked full time during the 80's when my younger children were born. We are pioneers and to those who criticise mothers (never fathers) for working when their children are small - I wish they'd meet the young women in our daughter's friendship circle. All had 'working mothers', all made good friendships that continue to sustain them, all succeeded in school and went on to university, all now young mothers - most working part not full time because guess what, it's more accepted in their work places that young mothers return after mat leave.

It was definitely the case here Jalima, it was children from more advantaged families not disadvantaged families

I think this would be an interesting piece of in-service training for people who work in the shoe shops. I am not sure that it deserves the publicity and press attention it has received.
It is a good idea - but not as a national strategy.

I'm not sure that wanting to buy a house instead of renting is really part of the problem Kittycat

DIL and DD both work but both have found time to read to their children (as do their fathers) and they have mortgages too.

There was some free nursery provision in Wales too, (not as much as in England) Cherrytree, and the little tots had to learn some Welsh too!

Isn't SureStart still provided in areas of deprivation? One of the criticisms previously was that, although it was supposed to be targeting disadvantaged children, many of the children attending came from advantaged backgrounds who perhaps did not need SureStart or whose parents could afford nursery provision anyway.
I only know what a younger member of my family told me about her area.

Absolutely agreed, Mamie

Indeed MissAdventure, but those that are should be equally responsible.

Kittikat round here it would be cheaper to buy than to pay rent! If only you could afford to save the depositIt was an active government policy to get women back into the workplace so that there would be less demand on benefits. Not sure that is working out as planned though I do believe women should be in the workplace.

We undervalue childcare. The quality and ability of those caring for babies and toddlers is very variable. In some places, that often score highly in the international education comparative tables they have very specialist , graduates running day care who understand child development including speech and language. development. Probably makes a difference in the support any children, who have a delay, get.

A lot of fathers aren't around.

Well I worked full-time from when mine were babies Kittycat. One is an English teacher and the other is a Head of Communications. ?
I am not sure why fathers are not expected to be equally involved in talking to their children, on this thread?

A lot of mums have to go to work full time-especially if they want to afford to buy Clarks shoes! They get their child out of bed in the morn and drop them off at breakfast club. Then in the evening they collect them from after school club-where they have a meal-take them home and put them to bed. Not a lot of time to talk to sleepy children. Weekends are taken up with activities. Part of the cause of this is that they feel everyone must own their own home so both must work. By the time it's paid for and they have time to talk to their child, they have left home and it's too late! Thank goodness for social housing when my children were little-we were poor but at least I was home to talk to my children and look after them.

Its unlikely that a lot of the poorer families would be able to afford Clarkes shoes.

I think this would be an interesting piece of in-service training for people who work in the shoe shops. I am not sure that it deserves the publicity and press attention it has received. It is hardly a national strategy is it?

Not all poor parenting, sadly some children suffer from speech delay.

There has always and will always be 'poor parenting'
The Victorians believed
'All children should be seen and not heard'.

Some mothers suffer post-natal depression and will often be struggling with toddler and a baby.

Some of todays parents do spend more time watching screens than conversing with their children, but in years gone by children were often left to fend for themselves, looked after by older siblings whilst parents were working, in the pub or at bingo etc.

Children now from 3 yrs get free 15 hours nursery placements.
Certain parents are allowed nursery provision at 2yrs old
There is free 30 hours provision if both parents working.

So plenty of help there for a child to learn the art of conversation.

When I take my grandchildren to any local shop or supermarket the person behind the till will often talk to the children.
When I have been in Clarks shoe shop with my grandchildren the staff not only talk to the child (bit difficult not to as the require them to put foot on gauge walk up and down and ask if shoes feel comfortable etc)
They also ask the child to write how old they are on the shop tablet in a colour of their choice.

Even if a child is not talkng in complete sentences by 4 or 5 they soon catch up and those that don't should be referred to a speech therapist.
Referals can also be made by the nursery.

Re the OP. Why not? If anybody can model good speech and questions to parents and children then I ask again...why not?

Exactly, Anja.

I have said the Blair Government introduced Sure Start

I agree with Iam64's description of this initiative as "cheapskate".

Of course, I think it is desirable that anyone interacting with children (or adults) in the course of their business should communicate clearly and chat to them in a natural way. If there is poor interaction with children from parents and other adults, that is something that requires a bit more than Clarke's assistants being primed to fill the gap.

I disagree with you Anniebach. The Labour government introduced the Sure Start scheme to help children who were at risk of starting school without the requisite communication and practical skills.

The parents of 4 year olds were not born 11 years ago, I do wonder if we have become state dependent. Yes the cut backs by this government is causing problems but we now blame the government for everything so shifting responsibility from ourselves

This is a reflection of the society we live in. There has always been poor parenting and alcohol abuse.

Things are getting worse clearly. Television was blamed in the past, mobiles and tablets now and doubtless there is some substance in these accusations. It is also true that excellent schemes like Sure Start and Children’s Cenres have been scrapped by this government in the name of austerity.

These children then enter the education system which is under pressure from cuts and government interference and they often fail.

Such children are the least likely to get employment when they leave school with all that entails; a sense of failure, no aspirations, living on benefits, or turning to crime or alcohol.

In other words interventions in place in 2010 have been scrapped and systems which should have eased these children in their passage through school have been undercut. Annie is correct in one way, we haven’t yet seen the full extent of the damage done. That will emerge when those children denied very early interventions hit the streets.

Re the OP. Why not? If anybody can model good speech and questions to parents and children then I ask again...why not?

"Annie" So can government policies help or hinder such things?

PECS not one reason, if only there was

Thanks Iam for adding all those other perspectives too.
Annie why do you think there is an increase in substance abuse/ family breakdown? You have suggested you feel it is not the fault of government decisions. What do you think is the cause?

Iam I agree with you on family services but no government can be blamed for the increase in alcohol and substance abuse. There are young people sleeping on the streets caused by family breakdowns, more one parent families no responsibility taken by the fathers. Have we gone from one extreme to the other.

I've just read through this discussion and want to say I fully support every post by PECS.
In my l.a. and all the areas in which I worked preventive and family support services have been decimated by the government's austerity approach. We had excellent Sure Start and other family centres - all closed.
The criticism of child care in nurseries is often made on gransnet, it's inaccurate. Many children whose speech is delayed make progress when they start nursery.
WE need to remember that when we were children, many parents who no live in the community would have been placed into long stay hospitals because of learning or other difficulties. Family Centres did brilliant work in supporting those families.
We have more mental health problems, particularly those associated with substance/alcohol misuse. The children in those families need state support - Family Centres, health visitors etc etc.
It's easy to point the finger at 'young mothers' today, blame their mobile phones or iPads for child neglect. It's wrong though.

I do not disagree that children arrive at school with poorly developed language skills.
I saw the excellent Speech and Language service in my local authority slowly disappear and kids in my school lose out as a result.
Originally the service had S &L therapists plus S&L teachers. First the therapists went and set up private practice because pay and conditions in LA could not keep up with private practice.
Then the LA funding was reduced so external services were cut including the specialist peripatetic S& L teachers.
Then the government spent mega bucks on projects called Every Child a Talker (ECAT) to help pre-schools and day care to train their staff to support children with language delay. A large number of the younger people who are employed in day nurseries are lovely caring people but many have gone into that role because they did not have the academic skills to train at a higher level..so what they did was fairly basic stuff.
Specialist paediatric nurses & HV worked in Sure Start /Family Centres with specialist EY teachers. The funding for higher qualified staff was cut. Now the centres are disappearing altogether .

So now we are relying on the people who sell a particular brand of shoe to fill the gap. Super!