The brightest and best

John Redwood has just claimed that the new rules will force employers to put up the wages of care workers. That doesn't make sense.

Central government has cut funding to local authorities, who can't afford to pay more for care workers without cutting the number employed.

In any case, there's already a shortage, but that hasn't forced wage increases, which employers could do now, if they wished or could.

But India already has a massive shortage of doctors and nurses for themselves growstuff. As I said upthread, they need 600,000 more doctors and 2,000,000 nurses in India just to cover the vast numbers that have already left to go and work in other countries. Is it fair that we keep on draining India of even more? Shouldn't we be training, and retaining, medical professionals here?

Chewbacca no, it is not fair at all. There was a programme on TV quite some time ago about this; I think it was about an Indian doctor who set up a consultancy to encourage young Indian doctors to come here, leaving their own hospitals deprived of doctors.
But so many of ours went to NZ, Australia and Canada.

84% of care workers in the UK are British

John Redwood is talking through his hat if he claims that employing more British workers will push up costs. Are they paid differently than EU or non-EU workers?

It would be a very unscrupulous employer who said he was paying a British care worker more per hour than a foreign worker and surely against the law.

They are all being underpaid and some are on zero hours contracts.

I think Redwood's theory is that scarcity would push up wages. It won't because there isn't any extra money to pay the wages.

The most likely outcome is that a smaller number of care workers will be paid more, which will mean that there are even fewer services than there are now - and only for those who can afford them

Chewbacca How does leaving the EU affect that? It's likely that we will need to recruit more doctors and nurses from the Indian sub-continent, especially as there will be fewer restrictions for them. The latest immigration scheme actively encourages people such as qualified medics from India.

One of the reasons that bright young people from places in India and countries in Africa study medicine is because they know it's a global passport and they'll be able to go anywhere in the world.

Leaving the EU won't stop that. If anything, it will make the situation worse.

I've just watched the interview with Redwood a number of times. He and Patel seem to be living on a different planet.

Redwood claims that computers and automation will increase productivity in social care settings. He doesn't appear to have any idea what he's talking about. A robot can't wipe a bottom or talk to somebody sympathetically or help somebody drink a cup of tea or …

Patel is spouting nonsense about * million economically inactive people ready to be trained to do the work EU workers are currently doing.

I agree wholeheartedly that vocational training needs a complete overhaul, but a couple of cheap headlines to appease Brexiters isn't going to do that. The UK's track record on vocational training is woeful and could have been reformed from within the EU - as other countries have done.

BTW One person who has benefited from people wanting to leave the UK and live in the EU is me! ;-)

Since the referendum, there has been an increase in the number of adults wanting to learn German with a view to emigrating. They are very highly skilled people, who needed to improve their German before leaving for work already offered or to study in Germany.

My son left the UK after a gap year working in India, Kyrgyzstan and the UK, he went to study in the Czech Republic for 3 years, he has stayed on after graduation and now works for Amazon out there.
He has always viewed himself as European and sees no barriers in borders when it comes to travel and work.
He keeps in touch with his lecturers from uni and helps in recruitment days etc.
The university however has given up on recruiting in the UK, it seems our young people do not want to study abroad.
Within Amazon he is one of two UK employees!!

That's not true, in my experience, Missfoodlove. I have two students at the moment, who are aiming to take exams to qualify them for admission to courses in German universities. Some courses are run in English, but students need language skills for the more prestigious courses, which are free.

My daughter was an Erasmus student in the EU. My son, who is currently still at uni, was hoping to follow the same route, but it looks like he won't get the chance.

The big problem is the low take-up of degree courses in/with foreign languages and that's a direct result of the situation in schools.

The adults I've taught over the last year include a senior banker, a stockbroker, a scientist and a very senior car battery technologist. They've all gone now.

growstuff I think robots could be programmed to speak any language, could be a useful tool in home care. Will they be able to drive too, to get between appointments?

It is because languages have not been taught as a priority for many years and because pupils have been able to opt out.
Therefore fewer went on to take foreign languages at degree level.
It does mean, however, that those able to teach languages are able to pick and choose their job.

That's part of the story, I agree, although there's more to the poor uptake of languages.

There's no way in a million years I would want to teach languages in schools now. Teachers are treated badly and spend much of their time ticking boxes and following instructions from people who haven't a clue what they're talking about. Languages have been given a low priority in schools because they're obsessed with playing the league table games. Lack of parental support is an issue too.

We're returning to the situation, which existed 50 years ago, when only the grammar school pupils learnt foreign languages.

Not so sure about that growstuff, I attended an ordinary secondary school in the late 50's / early 60's and was taught French and German and can still handle these languages in a rough passable way. My final year at secondary also introduced me to Latin which I have found useful in later years for deciphering old documents.

Languages are being taught in schools. My GD, who is 7 years old, is being taught French at her school. 2 lessons a week, plus homework.

As most of the brightest and best will have a University Degree and a student loan, what happens when they leave the UK.

Do they have to repay the loan or do they just swan off and leave it behind?.

I don’t think language skills are always the issue in regards to deterring young people from studying/working abroad.
It seems almost a right of passage to go to university usually with school friends then have a gap year in Australia/NZ with a stop off in Thailand.

We should be encouraging our children to move out of their comfort zone and explore other countries and cultures.

There is a thread on mollycoddling children, reading gransnetters experiences it is crystal clear that our parenting is far different than the previous generation, as a result many young people are not as adventurous as their European counterparts.

I don’t know what the answer is and of course every parent’s priority is to keep their child safe but I feel we really need to encourage young people to push the boundaries more when it comes to travel.

Growstuff is right, modern foreign languages have been been neglected in schools with the result that fewer students are able to study languages at university. My husband was a language teacher and has observed this for years. Now fewer language courses are available in the universities.
It seems many students prefer to study media studies, legal studies ( not law, note) or Beckham studies, I kid you not!
Well qualified people have always emigrated, we’ve been haemorrhaging medics for years. No government seems to be concerned about it. They should be.

but we have to stem the flow somehow, we are a small island and having to build more houses on flood planes is not helping, the coast is eroding so we are getting smaller, this could not go on. Australia has vetted ones who want to come in for years so why can't we????

Chewbacca I know languages are taught in schools - just not very well.

Pupils can opt out at 14 and very few continue to A level, which is the minimum required for functional ability to communicate.

prestbury In that case, your school was unusual. I started teaching in 1982 and, even then, some pupils weren't considered bright enough to learn a foreign language and were discouraged from continuing to public exams. I know for an absolute fact that foreign languages were the preserve of the grammar and independent schools until comprehensives became the norm.

Australia has a different kind of system.

Thank you maddyone.