Is the UK Basic State Pension adequate to meet a healthy and warm standard of living in late life?

My Dad paid s company. Pension all his working life and if he was still alive he would have been 100 last year. He worked in a factory after coming out of the Army. My Mum paid full stamp even after marriage and if alive she would be 93 now. I paid full stamp before and after marriage and so did my 4 sisters. It was always known if a female paid married women stamp they could only claim on husband's NIC contribution. To suggest no one knew this is rubbish. Many women chose not to pay full stamp because they wanted more money in their hand to live on. I had less when children small and money was tight then but knew would be better off in retirement. State pension is fair hard to live off without private pension income. However those who chose to only pay married women NIC can now claim pension credit. Some claim housing benefit too. The government has borrowed massively with Covid 19 and the workers will be paying this debt off for years to come. Sunak added £1k just for this year to UC but there will be hell when higher benefit comes to an end next March. No one wants to pay higher taxes but that is where pension and benefits payment comes from.

Exactly vegansrock to avoid destitution.

That was then when a lot were genuinely poor, but today with a generous welfare state no one is destitute apart from the minority who have become homeless through drug and alcohol addiction, and even then help is available for those willing to make the effort to kick their addiction.

We all know retirement is coming so it is up to each of us to plan ahead.

It’s no good doing nothing to help ourselves and then complaining that the state pension isn’t enough to live on.

I couldn’t live on it. I believe one has to make their own provisions for retirement if the possibly can.

Ask me in 5 years time GrandadBrian. I’m a W.A.S.P.I. and don’t get State Pension until age 66. Us ladies born in the 1950’s have been done down by this Government and previous ones.

Ah I see if someone was on a low wage and had to choose between feeding their children and paying a full stamp that's their fault. If someone only has a state pension it's their fault. They are also responsible for Covid 19 and government borrowing. No one is on low pay and no one uses food banks or if they do it's their own fault! Ever heard of victim blaming?

in terms of warmth there is up to £340 paid in warm home discount and winter fuel allowance more if you are over 80

I seem to manage and also have saved a bit, but i have few 'wants' in that my mortgage is paid off and I don't seem to need to have my home warm enough to walk around in tee shirt and shorts in winter as some of my friends. (I've been told I have a cold house!).
After the huge expense of Covid I don't see any chance of a decent increase from any government party in my lifetime as we'll be paying it off for decades. I would love an increase and then I could have a holiday abroad, but am resigned to the fact that this is not happening.

If the govt start huge increases to tax for high earners those people are in a better position to upsticks and move abroad where their brainpower is respected and needed. Another brain drain. Not particularly fair if they have been brought up using the NHS and been educated etc here but just how it is.

We’ve moved to a much smaller house which is more economical to run and after a couple of years, left us mortgage free. We have a spare bedroom if any of our children need a temporary haven but, having seen friends ending up supporting their adult children, unless the circumstances were exceptional, I wouldn’t want mine to be beholden like this.

We can eat out fairly often, go for days out, usually 2/3 holidays and occasional cinema or theatre trips. If we still had to finance our four bedroom high rated house no doubt we would have to cut back considerably. We are all free to make different choices. Like many, we struggled with finances when the family were young but kept a roof over their heads and fed, clothed and unconditionally loved them.

My lunch/coffee group meets weekly and is very mixed financially. We enjoy each other’s company. We find reasonable meal deals to allow for those on limited budgets. One man joined and kept agitating for high end restaurants etc but fortunately he found a new lady friend and stopped coming.

ExD. I was canvassing our local area just before Christmas some years ago now. A mix of Crown, council and private housing. Amazed how many people opened the door wearing boxer type shorts and tee shirts with the heating blasting out.

Could hear my mum saying put another cardigan on and another pair of socks if you’re cold. Coal fires and linoleum floors.

ExD and Sussexborn - I think along the same lines as you. In the depth of winter I always think it ridiculous it is to see our TV news and other presenters in sleeveless, thin outfits, obviously in very warm studios with heating on full blast. Do they not take notice of the reports they are reading out urging us to turn our thermostats down to save the planet?

When Mrs T reduced the highest rate of tax to 60% I remember reading an editorial in the Telegraph - to paraphrase - thanks very much but we won't be working any harder, we'll just sit back and take the extra money.

The brain drain of scientists back in the 50s and early 60s was not necessarily down to taxation but more likely to have been because of the opportunities available in their fields of expertise. Since then facilities for research have grown and the numbers of scientists have increased.

Our rates of taxation are low compared to some other countries in the EU and quality of life is not just about taxation.

So it is our fault that we did not prepare for our retirement when we were younger.
Everybody' s story is different, but perhaps mine can be an example as to how this was an impossibility.
When our children were quite young, my husband's MS became worse. No disability working laws back in the 70's and 80's and, despite an excellent professional qualification, he was unable to find anybody willing to employ him even on a desk job he was more than capable with MS of doing.
Benefits were not generous.
I could not go to get a job, as he needed someone at home with him much of the time, and he was unable to care for the children.
We fostered small children, at that time, no pay for this, just expenses for them, and although that meant I was working full-time as a Mother and carer, no pay and no NI stamp.
As time went on, his mental health also got worse and he became quite violent.
Eventually, he left - I was left with a house falling down, and still over ten grand of mortgage outstanding (only interest had been paid for years).
I became seriously ill myself, needing a complicated surgery and a long recovery period.
Eventually, I became well enough to go back to paid employment (at the age of 61 yrs), paid off that mortgage and with help got the house repairs carried out.
Sold that large house and bought a small terraced one - no mortgage. Husband got half of this house as well as half of the extra money from the sale of the large one. WHY? Because he was refusing to sign papers permitted me to sell!!
When I sold that house, in which he never lived, never paid a single penny towards its upkeep and improvements, he again got 50% of that sale price. I managed to buy a flat with the remaining 50%.
I worked until I was nearly 70 yrs old, but this still meant that the many years I was not in paid employment meant I am only entitled to a percentage of the state pension and the need to the top up of Pension Credit.
I do not smoke, drink alcohol, rarely eat out, have not had a holiday for years, do keep a car, all paid for. I manage reasonably well on this money. Have no complaints, but do get annoyed when people tell me how I should have made better arrangements when I was younger.

My MIL's friend get pension credit ,she has a full pension from her working life but gets it topped up with rent help and other things.I dont know for sure what it is.She does say she has never been better off in her life.I'm delighted if thats the case ,so many women and men worked for decades in jobs that just about paid the bills with no hope of being able to pay into a private pension .Surely the care of those who worked their socks off should be a priority when they cant keep themselves? Other countries manage to look after their elderly why dont we ?

Franbern Those people who tell us that we should have made better arrangements when we were younger have no idea. You could not have foreseen how your life would turn out and I'm sure that there are thousands of people who would say the same.

When I started work in 1965, for an insurance company, you had to be employed for 3 years before your could join their pension scheme. If you changed jobs, which was often the best way to move up then there was no possibility of joining a scheme.

I then spent about 15 years working for small companies that had no scheme. During that time I changed career, went into articles and so was on a low salary for 4 years. My OH was self employed from the age of 21. At that age one tends not to think about pensions. Whilst I was still in articles we bought a house. We were only able to buy that because a former colleague was the financial director for a small building society and so we were able to get a mortgage. Higher rates of interest than the norm. Deposit borrowed from my Father.

In the early 80s I joined an international partnership with a good scheme. I stayed there for 5 years at the end of which time my job moved out of London, shortly after we moved to Suffolk. Had I known that the job was moving I would have followed it, rather than move to Suffolk, but I didn't know. Nobody knew.

I then became self employed again and we both took out a plan with Equitable Life and I guess most people know what happened to that.

There are thousands of people who joined schemes which have disappeared into the pockets of the rich. The Daily Mirror scheme (Robert Maxwell) disappeared, as has a large chunk of BHS (P Green).

So I think that those who either worked for companies with good schemes, or the state, should think themselves lucky.

The husband was very good about planning retirement finding - bless his little cottons.
I know not everyone is so lucky and I don’t think the state pension is sufficient for many people.
I was brought up in a “put another cardigan on” household. My son is like that too but that may be due to his schooling.

Franbern I’ve just read your post. You’ve certainly had tough times to endure during the course of your life and my heart goes out to you.

You acted as unpaid carer to your husband while also fostering small children. No reasonable person could think your time should have been better served out in the workplace building up your pension pot.

I hope you are now at a stage in your life when you are able to be kind to yourself and afford the occasional treat ?

Some people need to think before they post about what others should have done.

They have no idea of other people's lives and circumstances.

Franbern. I am glad things are better for you now.

I count myself fortunate that , by accident, I worked in local government and had to pay into their pension scheme. However at some point it became optional to join. I know quite a few people, men and women, who chose not to join; they decided that they would rather have the money in their pocket, some said that they would join a private scheme later in life. I think most never caught up .
The point I am making is that there were times when I looked at the amount I paid in contributions and thought that I could do with the money but as I had got into the habit of paying I carried on. We were by no means rich but now the pension keeps us very well.
I know others could not do as I did. I'm just happy that I could.

My old great aunts were over the moon when their old age pensions started. They could not believe that the government were giving them all this money for doing nothing .
Sadly it all depends on your personal circumstances. A relative remarked to me recently that his wife would not get her state pension for many years to come but added that it was hardly worth the bother now to claim it . They have really good private pensions. I long to tell him some of my friends have to live on this money. A major repair bill is their houses is a disaster .

Floradora9 I just love your name. I used to have a cairn terrier who we named Flora, after Flora MacDonald, although most people thought it was after the spread. Anyway, we called her Floradora. So, seeing your name brought back many fond memories.

Did you know there used to be a Floradora ballroom?

In view of the well Off brigade comments, have any of you given any thought as to why gov own figures in Feb 2020 revealed we have over 2 million pensioners living in poverty?

I believe we need to greatly reduce that to near zero.
Over 4 million live in substandard Draughty Poor heated housing Sending energy bills crazy.

we could never have saved up for retirement while we had children at school and then at uni but having children at a relatively young age did pay off because at 50 we managed to have a couple of exotic holidays and from then we saved and we saved and had no more exotic holidays, just lovely uk holidays. It was our choice to save for old age and one day old age came

Now I am comfortable and our savings became mine when I was widowed and looking back, the comfort I have today was governed by our life choices and that includes being happily marrried for the whole of our adult lives

State pension on its own could be enough, depends on lifestyle even now

GranddadBrian, I agree completely that a lot more needs to done for everyone who is living in substandard accommodation, I also agree that the state pension needs to be seriously overhauled . I don't think that anyone should have to choose between heating and eating. Sadly I think that no government really wants to grasp the nettle and do the sensible things that would enable a better standard of living for all of its citizens.

Apologies, I have been off colour so was not feeling up to replying to Craftyone. I am pleased she has been able to save and live in comfort. I am also in that position but it does not give me the right to say the State pension on its own could be enough to live on if that pension leaves a pensioner in poverty.

I was shocked to learn from Gov own figures the number of females receiving a State pension of less than £75 pw because of shortages of NI full stamps.

Grannynanny - thank you for your post. Yes, thanks to Pension Credit which brings my money up to the state pension, plus extra I get for Attendance Allowance, I am able to live pretty well.

My biggest treats are seeing how my own five children have all done so well in the careers - all got good degrees, and they are loving and caring to me, and between them have eight gorgeous children who I hope to be able to see grow up also.