Restraining violent, drugged abusive members if the public

That said, there are thousands of good police officers out there who are hurting because of the actions of a minority of rogue officers

Exactly. There are many officers who are disgusted and worried by this. Not the least because the action of these rogue officers make their job more difficult.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal for a criminal but a civilised society would not want to see anybody given the death penalty before they'd even had a trial.

Actually, I might be a little bit liberal because I don't agree with the death penalty after trial either. Too many innocent people have lost their lives by mistake.

It's meant to be disturbing to garner more publicity for the Black Rights movement.

It's just a thousand pities it was filmed!

It is a thousand pities that more arrests aren't filmed even if it is only to protect the police themselves from false allegations. I have witnessed the police being over zealous with somebody who has done nothing wrong except keep asking why they are arresting them when they have done nothing wrong. It was a black man and whilst they might have had a reason to arrest him that we knew nothing about, they waded into him so as to knock him to the ground. He wasn't going anywhere, he wasn't abusive just bewildered and they hadn't even tried to handcuff him. The crowd were equally bewildered but just threatened to arrest anybody who tried to speak to them. I have also seen somebody who has been beaten up in a police station, had a solicitors assistant come forward to act as a witness to say the victim had not been acting out and then had to withdraw it because her career would be stopped in its tracked and she couldn't afford to take the chance.
That said, there are thousands of good police officers out there who are hurting because of the actions of a minority of rogue officers. There does need to be a debate about how to support police officers in policing and restraint but they have to understand that people dying should not be at their hands. If restraint is needed, it should be for the least amount of time until they get the person handcuffed, wrists and ankles if necessary. Anybody yielding a weapon should expect the use of pepper spray or taser regardless of their medical history and there should be lengthy sentences for those that cause any injury to a police officer. I am not a bleeding heart liberal for a criminal but a civilised society would not want to see anybody given the death penalty before they'd even had a trial.

I don't understand why water cannon is not used more often especially in riot situations. It's not going to kill anyone just knock them down and get them wet.

JenniferEccles

I did make a point of saying that what happened to Floyd was wrong but that doesn’t alter the fact that his criminal record shows he was perfectly capable of violence.

The original question was how can police effectively restrain criminals who are out of control, possibly under the influence of drugs or alcohol, possibly armed and of a larger, stronger build than the officer.

In cases like that the neck restraint appears to be effective.

Of course it has to be done carefully, but it would be so wrong if all this negative publicity results in it becoming banned.

Effective in killing people.

Attitudes like yours make me weep. Where is your humanity

The police act in this country with the consent of the general public. It's one of the reasons they can operate succesfully without needing to carry guns. If they lose the support of the public their job becomes much harder. In order to maintain that support they need to be seen to be acting reasonably and fairly. It isn't supporting criminals to expect officers to behave properly it is ensuring that they can continue to operate safely.

I think you are right 3Nanny, I have got quite upset trying to defend decent members of society, there is that element who think the opposite, so I won’t be posting any more on this thread.

He was carrying the knife to repair his bike his defence lawyer says. So that’s alright then.

To me I think many posts on this thread are mostly pointing a finger towards BLM and supporters of them. Since the killing of George Floyd all we have had is the constant and ongoing threads about how the police do their jobs. They put up with a lot however I am finding all the threads about BLM and this happened and that happened getting tedious and boring to say the least not something I will keep posting on in future.

I think we should see what the investigation reveals. Apparently the police were originally called because there was a fight going on with people with knives. There is police cam that needs to be seen. I say appears and apparently rather than being vehement because this whole incident needs to be fully examined. The police officer has quite rightly been suspended whilst this happens. Without being in possession of all the facts it is not for us to prejudge. Looking at the video it could just be the officer was desperately trying to prise a knife away without getting it in the belly. I don’t know.

BLM told their supporters to take shots with their mobile phones of any police action but to make sure no BLM supporters are on it.

Trisher. Have you any member of your family you love? That works hard is honest and a lovely
person, who was slashed across his face nearly losing his eye was and is now scarred for life, Luckily it was filmed and the guy pleaded guilty, his excuse, he had been out with his mates and had a few, the police couldn’t restrain him, he was caught by video footage and shopped. That doesn’t help one bit the 25 year old scarred for Life, just being in the wrong place. The guy concerned had form as long as your arm. That is the reality of the situation, not some poor misunderstood guy who was carrying a 8” serrated blade, just in case. He pleaded guilty as there was no other option. In my eyes it should be attempted murder. No one should carry a gun or a weapon. The guy was 52 years old, how many more has he hurt and it was not videod.

I wouldn't say it is meant to be disturbing.
It is simply film taken by a passerby, presumably.

Sparkling watch the video. The man is on the ground and restrained one officer kneels on his neck. A crowd gathers asking if the man is OK. Eventually the officer stops kneeling on his neck and then leaves him and walks around the crowd. The arrested man sits up as the other officer holds him but offers no resistance or any indication that he is violent. No matter how you look at it the officer behaves badly. If as you say the arrested man was such a threat he leaves his colleague exposed to that threat.
One point made by a retired senior black Met officer is that distrust of the police will increase if this isn't dealt with.

It's meant to be disturbing to garner more publicity for the Black Rights movement.

It's just a thousand pities it was filmed ! The police must be cheesed off at the way their workload is now presented.
Once upon a time their job was a success in keeping law and order and if a would-be thug saw an officer on patrol he'd change his mind.

Society is violent and can't now be treated with the same respect which was once given as police officers don't know the minute when someone will be armed so naturally, they're not going to run the other way and leave the public at the mercy of a would-be killer so their adrenaline works overtime in the fight mode.

How would anyone feel if one of these thugs went on the rampage carrying a knife if the police walked the other way ?

Sparkling ; The man the officers were trying to detain apparently was carrying a knife although I did not see that on the video. I did see the officer put his knee on the mans neck which should not be allowed as a method of restraint.

Some posts are saying that is all the police can do to restrain a violent person, no wrong, each officer is equipped with taser, police baton ,hand cuffs and the pepper spray for the eyes. I have worked with some ex-offenders and they tell me that the pepper spray to the eyes is lethal once sprayed you are almost immediately blinded and the effects do wear off but the eyes can remain infected for weeks after. I have been told the spray is the worst thing you can get. Also the taser does a good job but I do understand an officer has to be in the correct position to release the taser on someone.
So to me there are many options for an officer to use without going for the knee on the neck.

The charge is ‘being in possession of a knife in a public place’

The video footage that I have seen today and is circulating on social media is extremely disturbing," Metropolitan Police Deputy Commissioner Steve House said in a statement. "Some of the techniques used cause me great concern - they are not taught in police training."

This is all that is relevant.

Carry any sort of a weapon and the intention to use it is ALWAYS there, or why arm yourself at all ?
Normal people don't go around carrying knives/guns. Simple as that.

Why would anyone carry a knife if the intention wasn't supposed to have been there to use one ?

The excuse for this is always the same---" for protection "

My eye !

the arrested man has been charged with possession of a bladed article; whether he is guilty of an offence is for the court to decide. we must not pre-judge the matter.
there are rules about statements that can be published about criminal matters where someone has been arrested and charged.
for these purposes, forums such as this equate to a publication.

Trisher. This guy was wanted on recall to prison, he was carrying a knife, presumably to use on someone, if not why carry one. How can those young policeman arrest a violent guy, that that doesn’t want to be recaptured. You go out on the streets and show us please. I would love to know. They act instinctively trying not to let suspect escape, they shouldn’t be on anyone’s neck, but in the pandemonium you can understand how momentarily it can happen. I would rather my law abiding family and friends were safe than some thug with a dangerous weapon. You don’t get that treatment if you are just walking by. Does no one think of the victims of knife crime, how many lives are lost or ruined.. This bleating on about criminals and their rights, what about mine to feel safe.if these police are disciplined I wouldn’t blame the lot of them of saying alright sort it out yourselves, they can’t do right for doing wrong. What would you do if threatened with a knife, just say there’s a good boy put it down, no you would fight for your life, if anyone attacked one of mine I would do anything to save them hurt. The police do that for us.

There is no "appeared" about it the officer kneels on his neck. He then leaves the suspect to berate the crowd. So if this man really was a threat his actions are wrong anyway. What would have happened if the event had not been filmed? www.youtube.com/watch?v=geWnr2HAL8Q

Knife

The black man who appeared to be restrained by a knee on the neck it now transpires had a knive and has been charged with possession of such. Out police are unarmed so it was a bad situation for them. It will be interesting to see what the independent enquiry finds.

I don`t have any family members/friends in the police force but i do worry about their safety as there does seem to be more attacks on them of late.
And this knee restraining in the UK seems to have come over from the US as iv`e never seen it in this country before and i don`t like it.
There has to be another way surely but i suppose they have to do whats right at the time.