NHS fallen to 31 in the world since Tories took over.

Thanks for your last two posts Growstuff- I can tell you’re a teacher, and a good one! Best explanation I’ve seen on the subject and easy for simpletons like me to understand.!

Whitewavemark2

Someone has mentioned that it needs a complete overhaul.

I think we could do no better than look at the systems on our doorstep, like Switzerland, France Germany etc.

I think Switzerland is (this is only from memory) a good system. People pay into a set insurance which is used to fund not for profit charity run hospitals. If a person is poor the government contributes for them.

I’d rather have a European system, than the dreadful American system where the poor including children are allowed to die through poverty.

What an uncivilised country!

We definitely don't need to follow Switzerland. I pay almost £400 a month for my Swiss health insurance, and that is with a £3000 excess that I have to pay before any claim. It is without a dedicated GP. I have to telephone the insùrance company before seeing a doctor and they assign me to whoever is cheapest. This is to keep the premiums as 'low' as possible.

It ís an absolute rip off. The one time I had to visit the doctor while I was there, the doctor and the level of service in the practice in general was appalling, despite costing over £200.

Our NHS is wonderful. The Tories are making profits for friends and family by selling bits off and using our NHS as a bargaining chip with the US. It's our national shame that we're letting them.

Pantglas2

Thanks for your last two posts Growstuff- I can tell you’re a teacher, and a good one! Best explanation I’ve seen on the subject and easy for simpletons like me to understand.!

Considering that in the first part of her post at 01.43 growstuff says exactly the same as what I was saying yesterday about money creation and the purpose of taxation I feel both vindicated and miffed!

I agree in principal with the idea of a health tax to be paid throughout your lifetime . But I worry about those who are working , minimum wage on the breadline who are just about making ends meet having to pay the health tax on top of everything else. The other thing is fear is that a possible tax will be thrown at employers who may be forced to pay on top of the job tax (employers NI) and the workplace pension (pretty useless anyway but pointless if you don’t make it to 70).

I think maybe a revamp of the NI could be the way forward where we all pay NI for life (taking into account income of course) .

Don’t take offence MaizieD - it’s me that doesn’t always grasp something at the first (or tenth!) attempt and then the lightbulb ? moment happens when someone puts it over in a way that sinks in that I feel a bit daft for not grasping it sooner!

A bit like cryptic xword clues when you read it, don’t get it, walk away to do something else, come back and see it immediately- how does that work?

growstuff I did suggest that the best way for the Government to borrow to pay for the current crisis would be to borrow from us, from pension funds etc in the way of bonds.

It's a fine balancing act between creating money and rampant inflation.
Surely creating money without fundamental backing would create longterm problems?
Why is Russia steadily buying up gold reserves?

Well MaizieD and growstuff I understand and agree with both your positions, but do not post often because I recognise that many opinions are deeply entrenched, and bound up in political ideology.

Wasting you time in other words, but hey it makes for interesting reading . But on the other hand sad for the future of our Public Health Service because I believe that the majority of opinions on here mirror what quite a big swathe of the electorate think.

Thanks, Pantglas

It's a fine balancing act between creating money and rampant inflation.

To put it very broadly, inflation is a result of too much money and very little to buy with it. While there are the resources available for purchase (and, in the case of our current discussion about the NHS no-one could deny that there is plenty that needs to be purchased), and we have a sovereign currency that we make all our financial transactions in, inflation is the very least of our worries.
Citing the three favourites, Venezuela, Zimbabwe and the Wiemar Republic is meaningless because they had vastly different financial and political landscapes from the UK's.

Surely creating money without fundamental backing would create longterm problems?

What 'fundamental backing' are you thinking of, Callistomen?

Well MaizieD and growstuff I understand and agree with both your positions, but do not post often because I recognise that many opinions are deeply entrenched, and bound up in political ideology.

But, Greeneyedgirl, if no-one makes these positions , and their rationale, clear, how are people's ideas about the economy ever going to change?

We know that austerity was wrong. Even the IMF says it was wrong. It greatly slowed the pace of recovery from 2008 and ruined many people's lives into the bargain. But while ever people go on believing the mendacious 'household economy' myth they will a) vote against party policies which are grounded in different economic thought and b) accept unquestioningly more unnecessary austerity.

Callistemon

growstuff I did suggest that the best way for the Government to borrow to pay for the current crisis would be to borrow from us, from pension funds etc in the way of bonds.

It's a fine balancing act between creating money and rampant inflation.
Surely creating money without fundamental backing would create longterm problems?
Why is Russia steadily buying up gold reserves?

Money is no longer backed up by gold. I don't know why Russia is buying up gold. I would imagine it sees it as a safe commodity, just like anything else which can be traded. The value of gold isn't linked to the amount of money (bits of paper promising to pay the bearer) in the world.

Yes, there is a danger if too much money is floating about an economy that there will be inflation. In fact, some inflation is a good thing.

The real danger without taxation is that a handful of people accumulate an excessive amount of it, which is what happens in a totally free market economy, and it's not directed towards the places where it can benefit a whole society.

MaizieD

Pantglas2

Thanks for your last two posts Growstuff- I can tell you’re a teacher, and a good one! Best explanation I’ve seen on the subject and easy for simpletons like me to understand.!

Considering that in the first part of her post at 01.43 growstuff says exactly the same as what I was saying yesterday about money creation and the purpose of taxation I feel both vindicated and miffed!

Don't be miffed. As somebody who has been a convert to MMT for years, I was miffed that you seemed to be lecturing me.

I was on my way to a talk by Ann Pettifor on the fateful day in 2017 when I had a heart attack. :-(

Friends now, growstuff?

forever!

One thing is absolutely for sure is that the state has stopped the country being in an even worse state than it already is. All those people who claim that "big state" is a bad thing should go away and have a rethink.