Stop the sell-off of 49 NHS GP practices to American health insurance giant.

I don't think it is true to say that GPS benefit from people being ill, They are tasked with keeping people healthy, hence the number of tests, checks and preventative treatments such as vaccinations,

They may be self employed, but are very much part of the NHS which should not just become the National Illness Service.

VQ Doctors have to be opened to bids from the private sector. They don't have a choice. "Last month, it emerged that NHS England has said that, because of competition law, all new GP contracts will have to be opened up to bids from the profit-making, private corporate sector

I think that’s new GP contracts, not existing ones.
But this has been going on in dentistry for years.
When the new dental contract came in in 2006, orthodontic contracts, unlike general dentistry contracts, were time-limited to 5 years. After the 5 years were up, a particularly well-respected orthodontist who had provided an excellent service in Newcastle for over 20 years, found his contract wasn’t renewed for some trivial reason, and the work given instead to a newly formed corporate business. There was nothing the Local Dental Committee could do about it.

As I say, blame the system.

The privatisation started with Thatcher and Reagan he encouraged her to open up the NHS to U.S markets It had to be done stealthily first with cleaning contractors There was a blue print for how steadily without the publics notice the NHS would be sold off and privatised. Then successive governments carried on I think Major brought in PFI and Blair and Brown intensified this giving hospitals billions to pay back, Corbyn spoke out condemning this incidentally, Then Cameron started under funding the NHS and despite saying in 2010 there will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS He in 2012 introduced the Health and Social Care Act that gave private companies tendering rights. Now NHS is all but privatised

Their are people and Drs fighting to stop this happening We can only hope.

Please sign the link to stop an American company Centene from taking over.

We have the best health service in the world it was the envy of the world It works brilliantly The jewel in our crown.

I think it was the jewel in our crown, it was the envy of the world but I am not sure this is still the case.
At our small local practice, we have a named GP but I rarely see him. Instead, there seems a never ending succession of young locus who, quite often, don’t know me or are that much interested. The days of the lovely local family GP are long long gone, sadly. Luckily, I don’t go to the doctor that often.

Locums not locus ?

Signed

As long as the founding principles of the NHS remain in place, ie, in this case that care received is free at the point of delivery then there is no issue, is there?

What's the difference between a company owning and making a profit from GP services and distributing dividends, and a Senior partner receiving a dividend?

GP practices have always been privately owned, as stated up thread. For instance I needed a dodgy mole seen to a while back, I was sent to a lovely private clinic, seen in minutes, offending article removed a few days later - job done, didn't cost me a penny. All on the NHS - because the clinic could offer the service more cheaply, therefore saving the NHS money.

The whole chemo unit where I used to live is built and run by Virgin. Before they took over people were being given chemo in corridors. All that happens is that the govt pay the company to deliver the service, instead of trying to efficiently manage what was, when I worked in the NHS, a bloody behemoth.

As for the company being American, so what? EDF bought out British Energy, it's now French electrickery - it doesn't mean the kettle boils with a French accent. If the service is the same or better, the ownership makes no difference.

As long as none of the patients at any of those practices gets a bill for their care I don't see the issue.

Agreed NellG

NellG No doubt the staff who dealt with you were trained by the NHS. How do you know that your op was done more cheaply than the NHS could do it?

Dinahmo NellG No doubt the staff who dealt with you were trained by the NHS. How do you know that your op was done more cheaply than the NHS could do it?
I think it’s quite common for private hospitals to be able to carry out procedures more cheaply than the NHS can. I presume it depends on how the NHS costs are worked out, but possibly because they have fewer overheads and a much more slimmed-down management structure.
A friend of ours was a hospital manager with BUPA & his hospital was contracted to do a lot of work for the NHS, because it cost the NHS less that way.

All privatisation of NHS is a bad idea The government set up these places not for the publics benefit but for privatisers shareholders who only have profit making in mind.

What needs to happen is the NHS needs to be renationalised again.

You can see a video The Great NHS Heist by Dr Bob Gill and other doctors who are speaking up about this. There is a good book. The Deceit Syndrome written by another doctor. Ect

The NHS structure is not a behemoth it is the managers shareholders and the huge debt brought in by unnecessary PFIs privatisation

Lots of people having private treatment that went wrong have had to go to NHS hospitals to fix the op blunders.

What we are getting now privatisation does not compare to our NHS And we should not give up our NHS or give it away a trillions dollar opportunity for the U.S

Dinahmo

NellG No doubt the staff who dealt with you were trained by the NHS. How do you know that your op was done more cheaply than the NHS could do it?

Because I asked and had an interesting conversation with the consultant about how it all worked- and because I was a manger in the NHS with ring fenced budgets and I know how much things cost within the NHS- for instance if I wanted to buy a bag of sugar for my place of work I had to order it from central supplies at a cost to my budget of eg £2.50, when I could have gone to the corner shop and bought it for 50p, but that wasn't an option. Then at the end of the year if there was any money left in my budget I had to use it or lose it for the following year, but couldn't spend it on what was needed outside the parameters of that specific budget. So, if I had say £20k left in the fixtures and fittings budget, but needed an extra nurse for a year, tough - no nurse, because the pay budget was in deficit. The money couldn't be moved - so in order not to lose it I'd have to completely re carpet a bedded unit, when it might have only been done a year before. Total, utter waste of public money and one of the reasons I left. When patient care goes down the pan to red tape, it's a bad do.

Sorry, should have said knew how much things cost.

About the staff, yes they were trained by the NHS, the consultant works at three different NHS hospitals plus two private clinics.

The last breast surgeon I saw was commuting between Manchester and the West Country in an NHS capacity, working three clinics across two Trusts plus his own Private Clinic.

I was trained by the NHS, I worked for them for 13 years - is there some suggestion that because I left I now owe them what it cost to train me?

How long ago did you work in the NHS, NellG?

I worked in hospital catering in the 1970s when it was still in house. There is no way we purchased any supplies at higher prices than it would have cost in a local shop.

MaizieD

How long ago did you work in the NHS, NellG?

I worked in hospital catering in the 1970s when it was still in house. There is no way we purchased any supplies at higher prices than it would have cost in a local shop.

Early 90's to mid noughties. So still quite a while ago. By then it had become much less in house - so very little discretion over the budgets for clinical managers
.
The sugar example I quoted was because even though the sugar itself could be bought in bulk and therefore more cheaply, the supply chain on costs to my budget meant that by the time it got to us it was three times the cost. Maybe food was a bad example, it just seemed the easiest one people might to relate to. I think hospital catering might be a different ball game and could buy more directly? I don't know, I have no experience of that. This was managing bedded MH units in the community. A better example might be having to use an external laundry service, and not being allowed to use the washing machines inside the units for bedding. Which would not only have been cheaper, but more convenient and a more 'home like' experience. Better for patient care and promoting independence. The patients could wash their own clothes, but their bed linen had to go to an external laundry service. The bill for the laundry service came in at something stupid, like £5 per bed sheet, but we were locked into a central, Trust agreed contract so couldn't spend the budgets more cost effectively.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the NHS was not efficient when it came to spending. It was lousy back then, so if they are now finding more efficient and effective ways to use funding then I don't think it's a bad thing.

Janeainsworth About 15 years ago the son of our neighbours had lymphoma. He was in his mid twenties at the time. Through work he had BUPA cover and was treated in one of their hospitals. The operation went well and for a couple of years he had check ups and everything was OK. One August the usual checkup was carried out - OK. His parent went off to Europe for a few months in their caravan. They had a phone call to say that the cancer had returned. No more money for BUPA treatment so back to the NHS. The cancer had returned with a vengeance and sadly he died.

Another friend had what she called a Manchester repair in a BUPA hospital. Her treatment was fine but she told me that at night there were no doctors at the hospital and if there was an emergency an ambulance would be called and the patient would be taken to an NHS hospital.

Private health is fine if you can pay for it but at some point, if you have a serious illness, the insurance cover will end. That is what so many people who have private insurance, such as BUPA don't realise - the insurance cover can run out and you have to rely on the NHS.

NellG I'm not suggesting that you should pay but that the private hospitals should perhaps contribute towards the cost of training future medical staff.

Dinahmo This is going to sound harsh because I know there is a lot of love for the NHS ( and just because I think it was badly run, it doesn't mean I don't value it hugely - in fact it's why I get so angry about wasted money) but... private hospitals do contribute towards training future medical staff, in that they pay corporation tax and employers NI. Also everyone who works in Private medicine pays NI. So, aren't they already covered?

Nell I’ll throw another spanner into the works re the cost of training staff.
Does the NHS compensate those countries whose trained staff come to the UK to work in the NHS?
And do we demand compensation from Australia & the USA when our medical graduates go there to work because they’re so frustrated by the terms & conditions of NHS employment?

I’m sorry if this takes me on to another idea but worth voicing. My ds worked with a gp surgery in England which opened its hours to suit the local community. Morning and evening. Why can’t all surgeries operate excuse the pun to suit local communities instead of saying sorry you’ll need to phone in the morning to get an appointment. Then finding when you do phone all appointments have been taken up. Eh what’s that all about?

MaisieD I worked in Area Supplies at the same time and we did most of the purchasing for our catering departments with approval from our catering officers who didn’t always buy cheapest but certainly, with arranged bulk contracts, still way cheaper than your local shop.They knew that serving decent food helped patient’s with their recovery. I lament their loss and loss it is.

You were lucky NellG. By coincidence, I have a dodgy mole and eventually saw a GP face-to-face on Tuesday. This was after I'd sat around for five hours waiting for a triage appointment (with no apology) and after I was shouted at because I couldn't get a good quality photo of the offending mole. It's right in the middle of my back and he sounded surprised that I haven't seen anybody face-to-face (apart from the dentist, pharmacist and another GP) in a year. Eventually, he gave me a face-to-face appointment.

The GP looked at it and said that he didn't think it was cancerous. When I responded, he said that I sounded disappointed. I was furious at this response. It's a classic mole which has grown rapidly and has uneven colour and shape. I've been worried, so of course I wasn't "disappointed".

Eventually, he said that he'd think about sending the photos he took to the local hospital, but he "warned" me that they'd want to see me and would almost certainly remove it.

I came out of the GP shaking, which is rare for me. The practice has been going downhill for years (before the pandemic). Patients rarely get to see the same doctor twice, including for follow up. The standard waiting time for appointments is 3 or 4 weeks and they're on record as saying that they want to move towards remote appointments.

I still don't know for sure whether he's going to follow this up.

Elizabeth1

I’m sorry if this takes me on to another idea but worth voicing. My ds worked with a gp surgery in England which opened its hours to suit the local community. Morning and evening. Why can’t all surgeries operate excuse the pun to suit local communities instead of saying sorry you’ll need to phone in the morning to get an appointment. Then finding when you do phone all appointments have been taken up. Eh what’s that all about?

I couldn't agree more. It's absolute nonsense.

That's not good growstuff and a horrible experience - fairly sure that 'arrogant, dismissive GPs' is going to need it's own thread.

If GPs could spot melanoma by ehe, fewer people would be dying of it. Push to be seen, you need a more qualified opinion.

As for me, yes I was extremely lucky - I felt like I'd won some kind of pampered patient prize! What struck me most though, at the time and again with the posts here, is the inequality of it and the 'post code' lottery. We argue for or agains that - as in, to be fair go backwards also that everyone has to have an experience like yours (or worse) because it might not be right, but godammit it's equal! Or, argue that NHS services going out to tender may in time level services up to a relatively equal, better level.

I'd stick with the second - the 'old' way wasn't working. And, even with the full risk of the slew of indignation I'm going to get for this, the NHS isn't short of money, it's just short of good managers who know how to spend it.

*eye