Do the pros of sending tanks to Ukraine outweigh the cons?

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21 you are correct, there is far more going on behind the scenes.

To put it all in the public domain is an open invite to the enemy.

Anyone who is involved and knows what is happening will not be on a public forum discussing it.

Anyone who is on a public forum discussing it will not really know what is happening.

I was referring to NATO and Governments not declaring all their cards.

Anyone with insider knowledge however it was gained would be a fool to post details on any forum.

GrannyGravy13 I was referring to NATO and Governments not declaring all their cards.

Anyone with insider knowledge however it was gained would be a fool to post details on any forum.

Of course no secrets.

People also ponder/post on any question. No difference.

We don’t know, that is certain, we don’t know how many tanks nor when, nor what other weapons are going to accompany them. Lots of uncertainty over transport, it has all got to cross the Dnieper river with Russian spy planes and satellites watching and there aren’t many bridges.

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21 you are correct, there is far more going on behind the scenes.

To put it all in the public domain is an open invite to the enemy.

Anyone who is involved and knows what is happening will not be on a public forum discussing it.

Anyone who is on a public forum discussing it will not really know what is happening.

I was referring to NATO and Governments not declaring all their cards.

Anyone with insider knowledge however it was gained would be a fool to post details on any forum.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21 you are correct, there is far more going on behind the scenes.

To put it all in the public domain is an open invite to the enemy.

Anyone who is involved and knows what is happening will not be on a public forum discussing it.

Anyone who is on a public forum discussing it will not really know what is happening.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21 you are correct, there is far more going on behind the scenes.

To put it all in the public domain is an open invite to the enemy.

Indeed.

But we can ponder and guess...

Callistemon21 you are correct, there is far more going on behind the scenes.

To put it all in the public domain is an open invite to the enemy.

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

Blimey what are you all putting in your tea…

It's were they are getting all this from I worry about.

Yes.

Nothing to do with being sexist, not having had experience in the Forces nor knowing anyone who is working on the logistics of all this, it is just that anyone who does have what is probably inside information is not going to post it on the internet.

Katie59

C-17 can load for airlift 2 of the big new tanks.

No just one, but I really don’t see NATO C17s airlifting tanks into Ukraine because fuel and supplies would also need to do the same.

Two per plane, not that it matters with so few.

"How many tanks fit in a C-17 Globemaster (M1 Abrams) www.quora.com › How-many-tanks-fit-in-a-C-17-...
Mar 1, 2020 — The aircraft is able to carry two M1 Abrams main battle tanks, or one Abrams tank plus two M2/M3 Bradley fighting vehicles..."

From the USA on ships, into port, then on rail, then convoy over-land -- why not short field airlift? The USA have the capability for speed of delivery. If bothering to supply why not be quick and efficient?

Please accept my apologies. I was being lighthearted, and you’re absolutely right that it was a clumsy assumption to make. I served in the Army, as did my husband - a career soldier, and I have been a lifelong student of military history from the campaigns of Alexander upwards, and still have an abiding interest in and connections to the military. And yes, there will certainly be others on here similarly experienced and disposed. I hope my previous opinions though will be considered as measured.

Isn't this rather sexist? I beginning to find it rather surreal that we have a group of grans discussing the logistics of moving heavy armaments across a battlefield

It is suggesting that no older woman has ever served in the defence services, studied war studies at university, or has any knowledge, or interest in military history

Why on earth shouldn't we know about the logistics of moving tanks ? The landing beaches in Normandy were chosen deliberately to enable tanks to travel across the land. The original choice of 1anding beaches was rejected because the hinterland was unsuitable for tanks

Do you mean to tell me that when all those pudding faced apparatchiks in Moscow realise that their beloved leader has actually gone off his rocker, and they might get back as good as they give, they won’t suddenly wake up and smell the coffee? There are only so many places in the Kremlin bunker, guys!

Fleurpepper

Exactly, if he is ill and knows he hasn't got long, he is mad enough to want to try. Which is why many of us, but far too few, tried to stop nuclear proliferation for 50 years ...
because we knew that day would come.

Russia warns United States: The end of nuclear arms control may be nigh
Reuters
GUY FAULCONBRIDGE
January 30, 2023, 5:43 AM

GrannyGravy13

Blimey what are you all putting in your tea…

It's were they are getting all this from I worry about.

GrannyGravy13

Blimey what are you all putting in your tea…

😂😂😂

I beginning to find it rather surreal that we have a group of grans discussing the logistics of moving heavy armaments across a battlefield

I expect the FSS is glued to this thread, awaiting further developments so that they can report back to Putin.

GrannyGravy🤣!

Blimey what are you all putting in your tea…

Monica ''MAD does not require both sides to act rationally, because if both sides were rational the danger doesn't arise. MAD has to be based on the enemy being irrational and being kept from action by knowing whatever they do the enemy will respond at a higher level and it can. ''

I have been thinking about this since you posted, and it truly does NOT make sense. An irrational madman, especially one at the end of life and with his family all hidden far away and safe, and with absolutely no respect or compassion for his own people, is EXACTLY what will prove MAD to be a fallacy.

This especially now that smaller, more precise nuclear weapon give the mentally insane illusion that a 'neat, small and well targeted' nuclear strike could just act as a warning. Sheer madness.

I beginning to find it rather surreal that we have a group of grans discussing the logistics of moving heavy armaments across a battlefield (not that we shouldn’t be, by any means). The guys on ARRS (The Army Rumour Service) would have a field day with this😂 but they are far more irreverent about it than us! One concluded recently that it would be far easier to give them all a rifle, five rounds and a small packed lunch!

I can’t watch the news anymore. Those brave and valiant Ukraines suffering so much, just want it to end. The Russians are being fed misinformation from Putin and I feel sorry for most of them, somebodies loved ones.. Don’t know what any of us can do but support the Ukraines in what they need including the tanks.
You would think that after all history has taught us, wars would not happen.

C-17 can load for airlift 2 of the big new tanks.

No just one, but I really don’t see NATO C17s airlifting tanks into Ukraine because fuel and supplies would also need to do the same.

USA intelligence recently refuted the suggestion that Putin is seriously ill, or even a bit ill

Exactly, if he is ill and knows he hasn't got long, he is mad enough to want to try. Which is why many of us, but far too few, tried to stop nuclear proliferation for 50 years ...
because we knew that day would come.

Fleurpepper

We can't pretend this is not a massively dangerous situation, most dangerous than any time in history before

fs.blog/mutually-assured-destruction/

It is a dangerous time Fleurpepper, but asking another country to plead with a bully is asking them to choose which version of failure they prefer. This would then apply to any other country Russia decided they were entitled to.

MAD does not require both sides to act rationally, because if both sides were rational the danger doesn't arise. MAD has to be based on the enemy being irrational and being kept from action by knowing whatever they do the enemy will respond at a higher level and it can. We cannot afford the irrational enemy to be better armed than us.

As to Putin. The rumours that he is in poor health are coming from so many directions, that while details may be lacking or varied. The basic fact that he is in poor health seem more likely as not. Average life expectancy in Russia is 72, so he is not far off it. Although this low figure is accounted for by the average Russians exceptionally heavy alcohol consumptions - and Putin is teetotal.

How knowing your life may not have long to run affects his decsion making we do not know.

Katie59

Airlift them in, no, a C5 does not do short airstrips, but don’t underestimate the capacity of the army engineers they have been practicing this for years.

Nobody said a C5.

C-17: "The design of the aircraft (high-lift wing, slats, and externally blown flaps) allows it to operate through small, austere airfields.

The C-17 can take off and land on runways as short as 3,500 feet (1,064 meters) and only 90 feet wide (27.4 meters)."

C-17 can load for airlift 2 of the big new tanks.