Estranged, any ideas?

So sorry you are in this bind. It is a shame that your DIL does not understand how suffering with depression can often make you see the worst in a situation and over-emphasise the negatives.

I suspect that all you can do is bide your time. Do you have an OH around to support you through this blip?

I often think that parents do not understand what grandchildren mean to a grandparent - I am sure that I was equally guilty of this too when I was in that situation.

Thank you Luckygirl. Yes I do have a very supportive oh and he is at a loss as well. It is over 6 months now and I had hoped that trying to be normal with my son and not putting pressure on would help. Oh occasionally sees our gd briefly just with the nature of the business, but I have basically been told to stay away from the house. It's a real mess. I think I could understand better if I was thinking or saying bad things about their behaviour but I fully admit I did get unusually (for me) upset. Have tried to explain this one off but just hitting a brick wall. Anyway I really appreciate you taking the time to read my essay, and responding.

Perhaps your DIL was finding it all a bit claustrophobic? Your family business, living just down the road from you, home calls and visits even they were about the business.

Maybe you called at a bad moment, when she was saying how fed up she was.

Apart from this time you don’t think you have ever done anything but that might not be how your son and daughter in law see it.

I’m afraid that then your emphasis on how upset you were, your feelings, could have been the last straw. Things rarely blow up out of nowhere. Usually there’s been some longer term underlying frustration.

Sometimes we have to try to rewrite the story from the other person’s point of view. We’re all reluctant to see ourselves and our actions as they might be seen from the other side.

How long ago did all this happen, Googoo?

Oh sorry,just seen the six months reply to Luckygirl.

Of course you are right there are two sides to every story as I said. I thought I had tried to see it from their point of view by trying to stay out of their lives. I have even decided to step away from the business to give them space. Certainly don't intend to sound critical or unappreciative of their feelings. I suppose because I think I am trying to look at it from both sides I sort of hope dil might try to do the same. Thank you for your input, I appreciate your honesty.

Never mix business and family .......perhaps you should step back a bit.
Maybe she went with all guns blazing, maybe your dil is just over sensitive....to say she will never forgive you is very strong and harsh. I have had things said to me and vice versa, but it's all said at the heat of the moment and everyone understands.
Keeping your gd away from you is downright mean.
Hope it sorts itself out

I agree with the never mix business and family. I get the impression that there was a simple misunderstanding here that unfortunately got blown all out of proportion.

General advice for parents is that no relationship with the parents = no relationship with the child. It's quite possible (I'm not saying you meant this; just that it could be perceived this way) that your son and DIL got the impression that you wanted to see GD in order to help manage your depression. If they got that impression, I can definitely understand their not wanting to see you. A child cannot be your emotional bandage. Again, I am not saying that that's what you said or what you meant. I'm just saying that based on what you have written here, there is the potential that that's the message they heard.

I would strongly encourage that you seek counselling and support for your depression. I can understand wanting to get off the medication, but in fairness, if you're sick, you need medication. Would you consider someone who has diabetes to be "dependent" on their insulin? What about someone with high blood pressure? There's no shame in having a mental illness or being on antidepressants.

Given that your mental state is fragile right now, it might in some ways be best to hold off on a relationship. I would suggest finding some other activities to do that you enjoy. Being active and doing things with your hands can be very helpful for depression. By "doing things with your hands", I mean pretty much anything. Some people write, some paint, some sculpt, some sew, some draw, some knit or crochet, some do more unusual things. My kid has some "Thinking Putty" that she uses to relax. A female nursing instructor I had told us she did woodworking. She had saws in her garage that her husband didn't touch, and that was her stress relief. It's whatever works for you.

I would also suggest not forcing the issue. No matter who's in the wrong or right here, your son needs to be a united front with his wife - however that looks. If you give them time to cool off, they may eventually decide to let you back in. Speaking to children who have been estranged from their parents, I've noted that repeated attempts by the parent at contact usually backfire, often spectacularly. If you give them time, they may eventually decide to reconcile. At the very least, they will respect that you've given them space.

You mentioned this all started after a discussion about business spending. Is the business on solid footing or are there problems? You also stated that your DIL isn’t a business owner. Would she like to be? Has she been included or excluded from family business discussions?

Money problems bring out the worst in the best of us. I can’t help but wonder if your outburst wasn’t just a target for her (perhaps) long-brewing frustrations.

Thank you all for responses. We all have different views on things. What's right for one person may not be right for another. I totally agree I expect and think my son should support his wife. He is well aware of that. The financial issues that were discussed did not involve me but I think they were the catalyst for what has now happened. Not sure about seeing gc to help with depression, interesting observation and not something I had considered. They didn't know about depression until after event.

It's quite cathartic to get it out, apart from oh and dd's I haven't spoken to anyone about it. So appreciate responses.

So you had,
1. a family meeting about the business finances,
2. a brief meeting about the business,
3. a pre arranged meeting about the business at which you felt increased emotional pressure, culminating in a
4th family meeting where you became distressed and told the truth about your position.

It does look a little like some underlying worry about the business has found a excuse to rear its head to me. Is that at all possible?

I really dislike it when people retreat and use passive aggressive behaviour! Have they spoken clearly to you or H. about what the problem was from their point of view?

Obviously they've been upset and angered by the way you behaved, (not that I can see a problem, but trying to see things from their pov) but to have escalated things to this extent seems to point to you having hit a nerve at the time of the original conversation. There on in, they seemed to have decided to make it an 'us and them' situation.

I'm afraid its very common for parents to 'punish' gp's by not allowing them access to gc.

Whilst I can see how very difficult it would be to spend time with someone who had treated me unfairly (not saying you did but somehow somewhere they've got that idea) restricting access is a very large mallet to crack a quite small nut imo. .
I don't remember ever restricting access of the 4 gp to my children, and I can say there were quite a few times when I felt hard done by and redundant, and had to grit my teeth whilst GP's and GC' happily enjoyed their time together!!

There is a thread under relationships for people who have problems with estrangement. You would probably find lots of support on there.

x

Googoogool, I'm very aware of some comments made and how reading between the lines is such a useless way to reply to someone with a problem. So I hope my interpretation of your situation hasn't upset you in any way

As for using a gc as a crutch, ridiculous!

Do read how others deal with estrangement on the thread I mentioned.

Good luck [shamrock}

I re-read your message and noticed a few things I didn’t on first read. Please don’t interpret my questions as “piling on”; I think the solution to your problem lies in finding the source of the upset with your DIL.

1. You had a family business meeting after which things became “fraught”. A few days later, you visited for a business reason and felt ignored. Since a business discussion would have been with your son, I’ll assume you felt ignored by your DIL. With tensions already running high, might your DIL have felt your pre-arranged meeting was a thinly veiled attempt to visit with your GD?

2. You also stated that you’ve apologized for getting upset, but did you apologize for what you said? As an outsider, it sounds a bit like an “I’m sorry you feel that way” apology which just throws gas on the fire. I suggest doubling back, parsing the content of your argument and re-approaching the apology from that perspective.

Just wondering why you wanted to wean yourself off antidepressants . If you have depression, it's sensible to take medication for it. It sounds to me that you decided to do this yourself ( forgive me if I'm wrong but you say " I was trying to wean myself off them" with no suggestion that a doctor was involved). You wouldn't wean yourself off blood pressure medication if you still had high blood pressure, so why think it's sensible to wean yourself off something which has been ( apparently) working well for 10 years. No wonder things got out of hand, and you acted overly dramatic about what should have been a simple misunderstanding.

I'd suggest getting back on track with your medication, see your doctor and get that straight . Then when you are feeling better, you might be able to deal with this family matter more calmly.

Namsnanny

I brought the "emotional crutch" idea up because I've actually heard of cases where this idea has been used: "Your relative just lost a loved one. You need to take your kids over there to make them feel better." "You're killing your loved one by not letting them see your kids. They can't sleep and are on medication now."

Notice I did point out that I didn't say the OP had phrased it this way or said this. I just said that given what she posted here, it might have come across that way: "I have depression and so you need to bring your children over because I can't deal with not seeing them." Again, not saying that is what she said, just that DS and DIL may have interpreted it that way.

agnurse….
I'm sorry if I seemed a bit off hand in my reply, but the fact that you've 'heard of cases', doesn't fill me with much confidence, and unfortunately it can sound a little bit condescending.

As you say nothing in Googoogool's post pointed even covertly, to her subconscious need to use the child as her personal crutch.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there are plenty of those on GN!
I just know when I posted, I was very worried about being affected by negative replies, and I am sensitive that others might be too. You included

Sorry you are so unhappy at the moment. I wonder if you just stand back for a while and get busy doing things you enjoy, that in time the situation might be less fraught. I know how difficult these family dynamics are. Just be kind to yourself.?
Some of the replies come over sometimes as judgemental, we don't know all the facts, however people come on here for support because at times we all need that.

Thank you all for comments. Without doubt I came on here looking for support and understanding of how unwanted I felt. I suppose I hoped someone would respond saying, I know exactly how you feel and solved it by doing such and such! Guess life just isn't that simple. I am well aware there are two sides to every story. Certainly I could have behaved better. Will finish off as don't want this to turn into an unintended battle field.

I know exactly how you feel Googoogool and am glad that you've found your way on to the support for those living with estrangement thread.

What I am about to post has been more or less posted on that thread, but because of some of the responses you've had here, I want to post on this thread as well.

Your d.i.l. has said she will never forgive yousuch uncompromising and unforgiving words over an incident for which you have apologised.

There are many things we learn as we grow from childhood into adulthood and 2 of those things are that our parents, just like us, are not perfect and they are not invincible.

As AC and as parents, there are moments or periods when we all need that bit of extra care, love and understanding yet it never ceases to shock and sadden me how all too often there are some of our AC's generation, who can so easily discard their own parents and/or p's.i.l. for even the smallest of perceived slights.

I agree that you son should support his wife. Be understanding if her anger toward you hasn't sufficiently diminished to the point that she wants to see you, despite your apologies. I do not agree however, that that support should go as far as him supporting her in the withholding of your GD.

All too often GC are used as pawns in the cruel and manipulative game of estrangement. They are used as weapons, to inflict pain and suffering on the GP's who love them, an instrument of punishment like no other. No thought is given to the welfare of these children especially if they've established a close and loving relationship with their GP's. What explanation is given as to why GM and or GD are no longer seeing them?

While there is some contact between you and your son, there is hope. I hope and pray that at some point your son will understand that he doesn't have too, and shouldn't support his wife in the withholding of their child.

agnurse a crutch is an aid to assist someone while they heal so that when they are healed, the crutch can be discarded. It is not necessarily a life long requirement on the part of the 'user', even if it is an emotional crutch.

I understand that some make emotional crutches out of others which is sad for both parties. I've seen this to a certain extent with Mr. S.'s mother who, for the last 15 years since the death of Mr. S's. father has attempted, with various degrees of success, to do this with him and his siblings. Her un willingness to spend any time alone so her expectations that her AC will rally around so this inevitable all be it sad consequence of bereavement, doesn't happen.

But Googoogool isn't seeking that level of support from her son or his wife. There is also no suggestion that she sees her GD as an emotional bandage, but it's pretty clear to me that her d.i.l. is using this child as a weapon.

IMO you should be congratulated for taking the courageous step of weaning yourself off antidepressants. I don't think it's fair to suggest that you've done so without medical advice or that your efforts have contributed to the unfortunate situation you now find your self in.

Smileless2012.....

Another constructive response!!!...…