What would you do?

My teenage daughter was renting a small flat while the her girlfriend was away working. One evening to her shock a man entered the flat with a key and introduced himself as the owner’s fiancé. He then made advances on my daughter who made it clear she wasn’t interested and from her bedroom called me, an hour away, to help her. I set off and meanwhile the man had entered the room starkers and got into her bed.
She was petrified with fear but convinced him that someone was on the way to fetch her and would call the police if he didn’t let her go. I arrived to find her with her belongings outside the flats at 1 am.
She wrote to her friend to tell her what had happened and the friend flatly refused to believe her, accused her of being over imaginative or the one offering favours or just paranoid and the friendship was dead on the spot. It took my daughter a long time to get over the incident; the erstwhile friend and fiancé married some months later.
People often won’t accept the truth about loved ones.

I am not excusing your BiL's behaviour in anyway, but as you have only met him once, perhaps give him a second chance, being aware this time of what he was like on your first meeting? Maybe he was anxious, in the middle of a disintegrating marriage( was his wife really sick?), and got drunk through anxiety. Maybe agree to meet in a neutral place, in the day time. As I said, I am not excusing him or blaming you, but perhaps one meeting in 5 years is not sufficient to gauge his true nature. When you do meet up, maybe casually mention to your DH that you "hope BiL won't be as unpleasant as he was when we last met", you certainly shouldn't enable BiL by ignoring his behaviour.

Or, he could just be a drunken pest and best avoided.

I think you should give your brother-in-law a chance.

The incident you refer to took place five years ago when he was married to someone else, so it may not occur again.

If a similar comment is made when you meet him and his new partner, tell him that it is inappropriate and if your husband did not hear it, tell him when you get home what was said, adding that a similar remark was made five years ago.

At that time you chose to believe it was a one-off thing and didn't mention it to your husband, as you didn't want to cause trouble.

Your husband probably knows his brother drinks. If both he and his new partner drink to excess, discuss frankly with your husband when you have visited them once whether you both are comfortable with the amount of drink taken or not.

Does nobody read the press etc about what is going on at the moment regarding women and the lack of respect from men? Your BiL behaviour is all part of this and it is essential that women speak out and not pussyfoot around DHs etc. it is not only outrageous that he should try it on with his brother's wife but totally unacceptable from any point of view.

Women got the vote eventually 100 years ago and I really don't think that much progress has been made since then where equality is concerned. And the attitude of some men and the general culture that abounds needs to be addressed by all and women MUST speak out.

Rant not over.

I don't know how you managed to ignore him. He obviously not only has a problem with drink but how he behaves when drinking. Have to wonder if that is how he met his current partner.
Sorry, but if your OH is not aware of how his brother behaves, he should be made aware before you are put in another difficult position. How he deals with it will be up to him.
Having been the recipient of quite a few drunken blokes in the past myself (why do some men think it's ok to propose to complete strangers when drunk as well as declare undying love??!!!) it isn't your fault how this lech behaved (even though he is quite possibly going to blame you).
You will never feel comfortable in this man's company, whatever happens so best to explain to OH now before you have to think up any excuse why you all can't meet up.

I in no way tolerate unwanted attention from men, drunk or otherwise. However, I do think people get rather excited at the thought of creating huge family rifts on here sometimes. Her DH's brother is family. No, he is not entitled to be lewd whether drunk or not, but one incident 5 years ago does seem to be not much to base a huge split on. I don't know why the OP didn't tell her DH about it at the time, but maybe it is because she didn't want to make a big deal out of something that whilst unpleasant and inappropriate didn't seem to make her feel scared? Yes, repeat any unwanted comments loudly, or ask your DH if he agrees with them if it happens again. Perhaps BiL is clumsy rather than malevolent, deserves to be brought up to date on social mores, but he might not be the devil incarnate. A little tolerance rather than leaping straight for the jugular can help particularly where family is involved. In the workplace no such lenience should be shown, but people can change and mature, a one off is a bit rash to string him up by his nether regions I feel.

Hear hear!

Explain it all now to DH. (As others have said if he supports this behaviour you have another problem entirely). But I hope he will understand that you should NEVER be alone with him. And if anything inappropriate happens he should be pulled up on it straight off. This really means you cannot have a drink while he is about as you will relax - a big no no. I had this with husband of a neighbour who was a good friend until... I have never been able to explain to her why I have cooled off.

I think you must tell your OH. Only you know the degree of inappropriateness in his previous behaviour, so can decide how to word it.
Even if you just say that his brother made you feel a bit uncomfortable with some things he said when he had a good drink in him and that you're not sure how much you would want to socialise with them. Your OH may feel that you would both be best to avoid them or, if you do meet up, will at least know to try not to leave you alone with him . I wouldn't keep quiet and risk feeling obliged to socialise with them - if you end up in a situation where he tries to touch or kiss you, you also want your OH to be aware in advance of what his brother can be like.

A few years ago I innocently met up ( he gave a good reason for meeting) with a relative whom I was close to when we were younger. We met in a restaurant for coffee and while we were there he admitted he had told his wife he was elsewhere. I had known he was attracted to me and he had in the past said things he shouldn't . I had told my DH about my relative's feelings etc and was so glad I had told him I was meeting this relative. Letting my imagination run riot a wee bit, I realised if someone had seen us and mentioned it to my relative's wife, she might have been angry and even phoned my DH to see if there was anything going on - it might have looked odd if I hadn't told my DH I was meeting him for coffee.

Tell your husband what happened in the past. If he asks why you did not say at the time, say everyone was in their cups and you did not want to cause family rifts.
Though do tell your husband if it happens at the next meeting you will repeat what he just said loudly as others have suggested and you will not be mixing with him and any partner he has again.
If on the meeting he repeats himself tell him he is not getting away with it this time your husband knows about his previous behaviour and you are telling everyone what he has just said.

Goodness me. Tell your husband!

If he’s done it to you I bet he’s done it to someone else. Shop him ?

I'd tell your OH you don't particularly want to meet up with his brother because of the lewd remarks he was making to you the last time you met. Tell your OH you'll give him one more chance as you knew he'd had too much to drink the last time you met but that if it happened again you'd wouldn't meet him anymore.

What a horrible thing to happen to your daughter Minerva must have been so frightening for her. I expect her friend found her fiance had feet of clay at some time during the marriage.

NotSpaghetti

Can you tell your "other half" that you only want to meet up with his brother and new partner in the daytime for tea or outings as "he's lechy when he's drunk".

That seems straightforward and is also true.
If he's inappropriate when sober, that's another matter.

That's what I'd do too.

Tell OH he will never understand your reluctance to socialize otherwise.

You can't keep making excuses. Tell your husband what his brother did....

I'm just looking for a few opinions on on-line shopping. Specifically with Iceland. I've online shopped with them for years with no problems. Then, a little while ago, came across something on Facebook where someone had been charged twice for their order. At the time, I thought it was a one off as I'd never had any problems with them at all, in years. However, once the seed was planted I realised that I'd never actually checked so a few weeks later, I thought about it again and that very week - I'd been charged twice. A call to head office and the money was reimbursed that day. But it happened again. This time it was a few days before I noticed but again, a phone call had the money sent back to my bank. This week, it happened again so I called the bank. It'd been 3 days and the money hadn't been put back in. The bank asked me to call Iceland and let them (the bank) know what happened. The girl I spoke to at Iceland was very apologetic and said she'd speak to her supervisor. I had a feeling then that a supervisor was already on hand. The girl asked me if I'd spoken to my bank and there was a very subtle change of tone when I said I had. By now, someone had had my money for 4 days and Iceland were blaming my bank saying it happened all the time but was nothing to do with them. I've been with the same bank for many years and nothing like this has happened, other than with Iceland, to the best of my knowledge. And only Iceland would benefit from having someone's money for an extra few days. Why would the bank have it?
So, am I being paranoid in thinking there's a bit of petty fraud going on here? If Iceland takes payments twice on a regular basis, from some of their customers, even for 24 hours, the interest they're gathering must mount up. Or am I over thinking things? I just wondered if anyone else has noticed this happening. By the way, if you go back over your bank statements nothing shows up. You wouldn't know a thing about it unless you happened to check your account on the day your delivery is made.... or if you checked your online banking and saw a 2nd, duplicate, 'pending' amount, for Iceland.... or maybe this is normal?

If by OH you mean spouse, live in or long term partner then why wouldn't you tell them? Or do you think they would react by saying it was your fault? I would expect them to support you.

Tell your OH so that when the s* hits the fan (if it does) again then he won't be alarmed at what is happening.
One more chance maybe? Then a very loud and public "get your hands off me" or "don't speak to me like that" and hopefully everyone around you will rally
Making bad behaviour public might be enough to stop it. If not tell your husband you tried but will not be socialising with his brother again
Be brave, be clear, be strong
Good luck

I'm not clear about why you didn't tell your OH at the time (I certainly would have done) but in your place I would sit him down and explain calmly that these are your fears - about being expected to meet up - and this is why. You'll have to explain why you didn't tell him at the time. You could also say that you're hoping this won't be repeated and are willing to give him ONE more chance but only one (if you are). If it happens again, then I agree with others to IMMEDIATELY tell him to back off in a loud voice. You have to remember that, from his perspective, he behaved inappropriately towards you and there were NO repercussions - not even from your OH. What message does that send to him ?

Karalou51 you should start a new discussion on this....

Annifrance I absolutely agree with you!

Surely this is the perfect time to discuss this with your OH. Isn't it the perfect time for ALL of us to have this type of conversation with our menfolk? I've certainly had it with mine this week.

I can absolutely understand why H1954 didn't tell her OH at the time because we are conditioned not to. We automatically think we must have done something that sends the wrong signals or we make excuses for the man's inappropriate behaviour, in this case blaming it on his drinking. He may very well be worse when he's drunk alcohol, but the underlying lack of values must be there when he's sober too.

If the outpouring of women's stories this week have taught us one thing, it is that we should be talking about this to anyone who will listen! This sorry episode is an exact reflection of the problems we, our daughters and our granddaughters face every day and it's time it stopped!

I can understand the reasons why she didn't tell, and go as far as to say that for certain men, this in itself is one of their goals.
To make women so uncomfortable, or worried, that they keep quiet.

Saying that, I probably would give the brother a chance to redeem himself. Drink brings out the absolute worst in some people.

I had the same with my SIL’s husband. There were regular family supper dances at the time so no chance of avoiding, and family were aware. I just laughed it off. SIL and I rolled our eyes at his behaviour. Even after he’d divorced SIL and remarried I went to meet the new wife and in the course of showing me their house he shoved me on a bed and launched himself on me - again best way of dealing I found was to treat it as a joke. (No cassanova likes to be laughed at)