Berlin Wall 25th Anniversary

Can't believe it's been twenty five years since the wall came down! I would have loved to see the luminous balloons.

Yes. Funny how they are celebrating something happy, whilst we have been remembering the fallen. The Germans remember the war dead on a different date, rather than on armistice Day.

I do remember watching in absolute amazement and joy for the German people on the TV. History in the making. I also remember my husband ( an ex soldier and always a profit of doom) saying it would disablise East and west relations.

I still have a Christmas card sent by a friend in 1989 which was a print of a drawing of the wall coming down.

I agree with you POGS

It's ironic that two such opposing anniversaries were marked today.

I'm glad for the Germans that they are one country again. Haven't got my head around Gorbachev's warning that there is a danger of another cold war..

Meanwhile we remember our war dead...an emotional few days

Just hope we can live peacefully with our neighbours, as you said.

Oh I can see just where Gorbachev is coming from. And I don't think Ukraine is worth it. Let the Russians have the bits of Ukraine that want to go back to the soviets anyway.

Was lucky enough to go on a teacher exchange for one term in Summer 92- in a school in the concrete jungle of Marzahn in East Berlin and living with a teacher (who had stayed with us in the UK before) in the old part of East Berlin. The 'feel' between East and West Berlin was still VERY marked- and it is still the case now for many. I also visited the old DDR towns of Ribnitz and Rostock- and the differences were greater still. Germany is re-united officially, but it does not always feel so, even now.

When we were in East Berlin earlier this year, a lot of it was behind scaffolding. Loads of building works. Old East Berlin, the Nikolai Quarter is charming. I didn't like the West bit very much.

Agreed, Nikolai quarter is lovely- and I would always want to stay in Prenzlauerberg.

I wanted to go back to go to the Christmas markets, but the air fares have gone astronomical. Should have booked it earlier.

Jingle

Please don't take my comment as a sarcastic retort to you as that truly is not the intention behind my next comment.

They had a huge rolling screen showing photos of those who died trying to cross the wall so it was a bitter sweet celebration.

Like our remembrance day for some it is a time of reflection of the horrors and sadness of the aspects of war but looking ahead with hope for peace.

I like the 3 short words Angela Merkel used to sum up the difference of living in a country of democracy as opposed to communism.

'SUBJECTS BECAME CITIZENS"

Jingl I do think your comment about 'let them have bits of Ukraine' is rather insensitive and naïve! It is for the citizens of Ukraine to make that decision. I recently met a number of young (20/30 yr olds) Ukrainians who were very strongly anti-Russian government/governance but who knew & liked many individual Russians. It is nt a simple case of giving bits of a country away. Maybe we could give Kent to France..it is near them after all!

It would not be fitting to have remembrance day for the Germans like the British do who have fought in so many wars. Germany stopped fighting in wars in 1945. The soldiers who faught and suffered, although they were only conscripted and not Nazis, have never felt that they were heros. looked after and cared for, and coming forward in their 90s to be talked to on TV and told how brave they were. The German soldiers who fought for their country had to be quiet about it and spend the rest of their lives trying to forget it.
Now the United Nations would like Germany 'to do more' but how can they? The minute Fr Merkel introduced hard measures to save the Euro, the Greeks got out their Nazi flags. etc. Poland would like Germany together with Poland to make a really strong EU with Berlin at the centre, but the press would still come out with their Nazi slogans so Germany will continue to do nothing and keep quiet.
The rest of Europe love to have the Nazi slogans to taunt Germany with. They can't forgive Germany for winning the peace after losing the war. The Germans are a great nation and what they do, they will continue to do well and it is to all our good that they are now a peace loving reunited nation.
Bye the way every German in the 'west' has paid monthly from his salary for the rebuilding of the East and are still paying for it after 25 years.

POGS thanks for that. When I was there in 92- I was taught a lesson I'd never forget by an older woman from East Berlin, recently reunited. Staying with young teachers and academics- who were obviously winners in the Wende- keen to travel and to advance (they were still on much lower salaries than West Berlin teachers in 92- and not allowed to apply across the town either- this is how I natually saw it too.

One day, I was walking in the old part of East Berlin and came across a patch of allotments- surrounded by building sites. It was beautiful and moving, flowers but mainly veg- each patch with its little shed and a bench, and fencing all around, the odd Trabant at the back with chickens living in it. I was happily taking pictures when this older lady (probably about my age now)- came out- wearing an apron and a scarf tied back on her head- and started shouting at me 'what are you doing here - go away'- I explained that I was an English teacher on a teacher exchange at such and such a school and it was ma day off- and that I thought the allotments were so beautifu. Her face softened and she said- 'come in, will have coffee and cake'. We chatted- and she started complaining about the building sites and the new road- and how the allotments would soon be destroyed and the land built on. Trying to help- I made a terrible mistake and said something like 'but at least now you are free' and she exploded 'Free, she said- yes I am f*****ing free to be poor, to have nothing, to have no job and my husband, my son and my daughter neither- free to be nothing and have nothing. The only happy thing in my life is this allotment, and soon I won't even have that- so you can take your ***** BACK, I don't want it. That kind of freedom is of NO use to me'

and she burst out crying- I cried too we hugged, I apologised- we had more coffee and cake and cried again as I left. And of course I've never seen her again. But as you can see the rich getting richer, and the poor poorer, all over the world, and x10000000 in ex communist countries- she is so often on my mind- and I think I just about get what she was trying to say.

Penstemonn - but does Kent want to be given to France?

Pogs - I think the people were very happy on the day the wall was opened. I appreciate there were many horrific events preceding that happening, but that is not what we were discussing.

No more than Ukraine wants to be part of Russia!

Well 25 years ago I wept as did my late mother as we watched those amazing news reports. My grandparents had fled Berlin in the summer of 61 settling in West Germany and never again saw their home city. My mother had been born and brought up in Berlin and although she and I were able to visit friends in West Berlin more than once she was always very tense and sometimes downright terrified. I used to tske a Sixth form trip every February starting in 1962 for A level German and History students and have some hair raising tales about those early years which * I will not bore you with*. But it was fascinating to see the scars and bulletholes in the East disappear as the old buildings were replaced with shiny new architecture. Can I suggest that you listen to Niall Ferguson on BBCiplayer for a flavour of Germany old and "new" if it interests you.

The Donetsk (sp?) region wants to be annexed to Russia. They had a referendum.

that was to penstemonn

Only been to Berlin once - for the Christmas markets and LOVED it, both East and West. Ate in a restaurant in the East which was untouched since the 20's so very art deco and divine. Loved one huge store in the West called something like WEA (ages since we went so memory poor) but it was gorgeous and we had afternoon tea in the restaurant also delectable.
Saw "Checkpoint Charlie" and remnants of the wall all seemed very bleak.

KaDeWe
Kaufhaus des Westens "the department store of the West"

Oh yes that is it! They have an antrim (sp) and at the time Father Christmas was sat under a huge tree all so well done

There 25 years ago (in May NOT November) no obvious signs that history would be made that same year! DS1 was 18, he and I had a Japanese lunch at Ka De We, much more sophisticated than visiting the zoo with the OG and DS2.
We took a coach trip into the E sector, had to show our passports by holding them up to the windows of the coach, no speaking, no smiling!
For me one of the most moving sights was the Russian Cemetary.... surrounded by poplars (representing WW2 soldiers marching to war) and weeping willows (representing the weeping mothers they had left behind) so the guide told us.

Can't believe 25 years have gone by so quickly! I remember when the wall went up feeling that it would be there for ever and to have it come down almost overnight was unbelievable.

A couple of years before the wall came down DD went to Germany with a schoolfriend whose father was German. They went into East Germany to visit his mother and saw photographs of his father ( a U Boat captain) meeting Hitler.

I haven't been to Berlin, since before the wall came down but I remember East Berlin as being one of the darkest, most sinister and most depressing places I have ever been. I also remember when the barriers first went up and the wall followed, although I didn't truly understand its implications as I was still a child. Nevertheless, I found it horrifying and fearsome – partly, perhaps, as a result of my parents' response. I certainly rejoiced when it fell.