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Rolf Harris verdict

(34 Posts)
sunseeker Fri 04-Jul-14 13:21:02

Just heard he has been given 5 years and 9 months.

bohonanna Sat 05-Jul-14 13:54:10

I feel that it is far too short a sentence, what about the "sentences" he has made his victims serve? As the mother of two grown up daughters I cannot imagine what it would be like to find out many years later that your daughter had been assaulted and furthermore had felt unable to confide in her mother, let alone anyone in authority! It would be devastating! One good thing about Rolf Harris is that if he does ever get out, he will be instantly recognisable by all generations of at least Europe, Australia and New Zealand!

Agus Sat 05-Jul-14 13:08:16

I am absolutely not condoning what RH has done but I personally think people like him are mentally ill and should be in a Mental Institution as opposed to prison. They are and always will be a threat to society and no amount of treatment would assure me it would be worth the risk of releasing them into society.
If even one got through the loop of treatment and monitoring, it's one too many.

whenim64 Sat 05-Jul-14 13:04:29

Sorry Ana you're right. I put that clumsily. I didn't mean that the whole three years is needed for every sex offender - if they get a long sentence, the calculation that decides how long is spent in custody is what counts (so the starting point is that a sentence that gives at least three years in custody is better), and the programme manager will prioritise those who need to get on it straight away so it's not disrupted by imminent release. Some sex offenders who are very dangerous will go through tests and assessments but might not necessarily join the programme, as a partially treated dangerous sex offender's risk rises - they learn more dodges than ways to control themselves when they find what the authorities are looking for - they are the ones who are put under close surveillance and heavily supervised if they're released.

On the subject of denial, it's been found that denial is not significant either way in determining whether a sex offender is still high risk. Sounds iffy, but it's because there are so many different reasons to deny, some of which can be undermined quickly after sentence. Shame, fear of lost reputation, instructions by lawyers, difficulty believing that he's done any harm, fear of prison and vigilantes/violence, being scared that the consequences will mean loss of loved ones, belief that what he did wasn't actually an offence and so on. The media do stir up the public about denial and remorse, but they don't have direct contact with the offender and don't know what his thoughts and feelings are about what he's done. The judge only knows what information he's had up to the point of sentencing and a sex offender won't tell the people who do his reports exactly what he did for fear of getting a heavier sentence. Afterwards, the judge often receives feedback about the progress of the prisoner., and they use that in an educative way to inform how they sit on future cases.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 05-Jul-14 12:08:31

I'm not sure any treatment could stop it coming out in really different old age. That's why I said he'll need watching. And probably will be.

Ana Sat 05-Jul-14 10:42:07

Although I take your point that some offenders can complete certain parts of the treatment quicker than others and that every offender's profile will be different.

Ana Sat 05-Jul-14 10:40:02

when, what you actually said in your post of 2nd July at 16.25 on the other Rolf Harris thread was:

"Sex offenders need at least three years inside to go right through a full treatment programme, with a decent period of probation supervision after to ensure any treatment needs that were unmet can be imposed."

That's what I was referring to.

Anniebach Sat 05-Jul-14 09:19:02

Was the letter to the father not in reply to a letter or telephone call to the father?

Iam64 Sat 05-Jul-14 09:09:30

That's a good point sun seeker.

sunseeker Sat 05-Jul-14 08:39:17

Does anyone else find it strange that the only letter of apology he wrote was to the father of one of the girls he assaulted, not to the girl. Its as if he was more concerned with the feelings of the father than the affect it had on the girl.

whenim64 Sat 05-Jul-14 01:01:13

Ana I said an average of three years, not at least three years. He can complete some work on probation supervision if deemed suitable for release with work outstanding. No, he hasn't expressed remorse to the court, but did apologise in a letter and to a parent years ago. That's a sign that his denial is not so entrenched that he can't admit some responsibility and mean it. Sex offenders often say after trial that they were told not to apologise and imply responsibility, and they were directed as to what to say when cross-examined.

He has to account for his hospital visit with Jimmy Savile now, and his 'accidental' possession of abusive images of children on his hard drive. So far, he has appeared to be a lone offender so what possessed him to join JS that day? It doesn't fit what is known of him. Much work to do in prison, and he won't be categorised as being low risk of reoffending without undergoing treatment.

Ana Fri 04-Jul-14 20:31:51

I noticed that too, GadaboutGran. I can only conclude that RH had a higher 'popularity' profile and was able to take advantage of more situations than Hall.

GadaboutGran Fri 04-Jul-14 20:24:50

An astute comment from one of his victims on the radio earlier - she said he's been guilty also of fraud - pretended to be one thing to the public & another in private. I guess this may be why some who believed his public persona find it hard to accept his guilt & the fact they've been duped. I can't remember Stuart Hall's offences but his sentence now seems light, even with the extension, in comparison to RH's - can anyone enlighten me?

Nonu Fri 04-Jul-14 20:02:22

I find the whole just so incredible, it beggars believe , who have ever thought it !

Such a shame they did not get Savile, "or" as some saying So Vile

rosesarered Fri 04-Jul-14 19:11:10

This case certainly proves there is no hiding place in celebrity status. What an end to his life!

Ana Fri 04-Jul-14 19:10:27

I should have said 'he'll probably...' of course. And I agree with Iam in that he doesn't seem to have shown any signs of remorse - the judge made a point of commenting on that.

Ana Fri 04-Jul-14 19:07:44

You say on another thread, when, that sex offenders need at least three years inside to go right through a full treatment programme.

If Rolf Harris's sentence stands, he'll be allowed out of prison (albeit on licence) well before that period of time.

Iam64 Fri 04-Jul-14 18:58:06

I'm not sure he's shown remorse, Whenim64. You have more knowledge of working with offenders than I do. My work was focussed more on the damage they cause and I accept I may be angry with this man as a result.

He put his victims through a trial. He denies having had abusive images of children on his lap top. I don't have a problem with the CPS deciding not to pursue a trial on that case. He was found guilty of serious sexual offences. His reputation is trashed. He'll be subject to appropriate attempts to address his offending behaviour and monitoring via Mappa on release. I'm reasonably content that justice has been seen to be done. I feel for the women who had to give evidence, and for RF's family sad

whenim64 Fri 04-Jul-14 15:14:29

Not an open prison. Category B or C where he'll receive treatment. Open prisons are for lowered risk offenders and lifers who are seen as suitable for open conditions when they are nearing the end of their sentence and are permitted to work or receive education/training locally.

TriciaF Fri 04-Jul-14 14:57:57

I read in one report that he showed no signs of remorse. I would think he has to get to that stage before he can progress.
Sounds to me like an addiction, though at his age surely the urge has diminished.

tiggypiro Fri 04-Jul-14 14:54:15

Will it be in an Open Prison where inmates seem to come and go as they please ? Let's hope not.

rosequartz Fri 04-Jul-14 14:32:57

Thanks whenim.

He does look reasonably fit and healthy for 84 but prison will take its toll
I hope.
I wonder if he will try to entertain the warders with little ditties as he did the courtroom.

GillT57 Fri 04-Jul-14 14:32:14

Thank you whenim64, good to hear from one who knows.

whenim64 Fri 04-Jul-14 14:14:00

rose he could complete treatment in the actual time served in prison, taking into account what the assessment throws up. 'Treatment dosage' - amount of treatment needed to show a treated profile at completion - averages three years for someone like him (of course, some sex offenders are so resistant to treatment that no amount will do any good). He's already shown signs that he took some responsibility and admits some of his behaviour, so he wouldn't be that difficult to get a shift in attitude - then further assessments and psychological testing would show whether he lies through his teeth - he'll do the lie detector before and after. This on its own doesn't tell the story, but in a battery of tests and range of assessments, as well as receiving intelligence about his behaviour when he thinks he isn't being scrutinised tells quite a lot.

Anne58 Fri 04-Jul-14 13:54:27

I don't think his age was taken into account.

He was tried and sentenced under the law as it applied at the time of the offences, and it looks to me as if he was actually sentenced to the maximum term those laws allowed.

sunseeker Fri 04-Jul-14 13:54:17

I was surprised to hear about the child porn images found on his computer, only heard about this today and apparently CPS are not proceeding with the prosecution because they did not want to appear to be "oppressive"!