Parental alienation

I guess some things might depend on which country you’re in, but if your ex DiL is not honouring courts advice may the first step is to take some legal advice. How old are the children?

Three girls 10,12 and 16. The children have been manipulated into saying they don’t want to see their father. The court case was over Covid and took so long that the mother had ample time to instil negative thought into their minds.

In UK

It is possible that they genuinely don’t want to see their father and haven’t been manipulated. My son refused to see his father. Entirely his own decision.

This is all very sad but also all too common these days.

I was prevented from seeing my GD for more than two years. It doesn't seem very long but she was less than a year old when I last saw her- so I missed a lot of those important milestones when she was very small.

She was born during Covid so I never even got to give her proper kisses and cuddles. She forgot who I was.

My story is a long and complex one I don't want to bore you with, but I did go to court eighteen months ago in support of my son's application for contact with his own child.

I have now seen my GD on a regular basis and to see her running towards me with her arms out for a big hug is one of the joys of my life. It has cost me more than I could really afford, especially in mental health as well as financial terms, but it has been worth every penny.

We are hoping that next week at the final hearing we will be allowed more time with her. Her mum doesn't want us to have any more than a few hours, but we are saying that isn't enough.

I don't know, a few years down the line, if things will get better or worse but for now we make the most of the fun we have and make memories I hope will last for her.

nurseblossom

Three girls 10,12 and 16. The children have been manipulated into saying they don’t want to see their father. The court case was over Covid and took so long that the mother had ample time to instil negative thought into their minds.

Given the right support the courts will be able to see if the girls are being genuine or not. I hate to ask, as it’s your son, but was the break up due to anything on your son’s side?

I truly hope you, your son and your DGC can get something mutually acceptable and amicable sorted out soon.

Are you “allowed” to send them cards etc in order to maintain some contact ?

Good luck

Is mediation or third party contact or a contact centre any kind of option currently?

You are correct Cossy, the court will appoint a social worker to report on whether the children are being manipulated - as a result of which my son’s father was denied access. These social workers are experts at getting at the truth, very gently.

We are in the situation as I’ve mentioned before. I feel so sorry for the children because they love their dad (he is a lovely man). But their little minds are constantly poisoned by the mother. When with their daddy they are very happy but the 9 year old will not allow his dad’s phone number to be put in his phone (strange but true). The court appointed CaFcass to make a report and it was all against the mother and her parental alienation tactics. Three previous social services reports said the same. Very little is done and we now have to attend a three day court hearing (18k in barrister fees alone) so that the judge can take the decisions out of the mother’s hands. I have little doubt he will do this as the matter has been before him on four or five occasions so far (overall cost now closer to £100k). Parental alienation is an evil thing to do, the children are so vulnerable to the mother’s words, they know in their hearts that their daddy is a good man, but the constant drip of hatred is causing terrible anxiety all round. I wish the court would take the children away from her, she is the one who has treated them badly physically and emotionally, but she has held all the cards. It’s such an awful situation for decent men. Presumably it can work the other way around, I suspect that is a rarer event. Good luck to your family, it’s been so painful for us so far.

Your son will probably need to go back to court nurseblossom. You referred to "the courts advice", has your son not been given joint custody? This needs to be formalised but unfortunately even when it is, a parent can still make it virtually impossible for the other parent to maintain their relationship.

It is an evil thing to do Nanatoone with no thought at all for the children caught in the middle .

On another forum a very loving gran was denied access when a new step “ father” appeared in the scene. On the day her granddaughter was 16 she turned up completely unannounced having made her own decision.

Good or bad it’s important to know where you come from.

The custody parent - usually the mother has an enormous advantage in manipulating the children, courts and social services, an estranged parent can find it very difficult, the family often moving hundreds of miles away just to make it difficult. In retaliation the aggrieved parents often withhold maintenence payments, it’s an all too familiar tale.

My son has joint custody. She has worked hard to alienate the children from not only their father and grandmother ( granddad diseased ) but the whole of our family. I might add it’s history repeating itself. Her mother did the same thing to her father. She had a good teacher. She and her mother are narcissists; it’s impossible to communicate with someone who feel they are always right.

Ah yes this thing where the parent had done the same thing and leaves the child thinking it’s ok to live without a dad (it isn’t). It’s so sad and to be honest, some of the things she has said and done I felt worse about than when my husband passed away as that was unavoidable grief. The grief I feel about these children is often u bearable, although we see them again now, the damage is done.

This thread is very against mothers - not saying the fathers in these cases are not being honest but sometimes the resident parent is protecting her/his child for safety reasons and/or disappointment. Sometimes it is better for the child to go slowly and this is not always acknowledged or understood by the non resident parent. We are finding this.

With children of that age, I think you would do well to respect their decision. I realise how hard this will be, especially as you feel that their mother has persuaded them into believing that they do not want contact with their father or his parents.

Try to look at this from the girls' angle and what may be, obviously, I am guessing here, be their point of view..

Their parents have divorced - something that most children fail to understand and which they do resent.

They live with their mother, so in her house and obeying her rules. Any sensible child in such circumstances opts for a quiet life, something best achieved by doing as mummy says.

The eldest is old enough to contact you if she wants to do so, and her sisters will soon be old enough too. If you try to exert pressure in order to see them, you will only cause resentment along the lines of "gran's making our lives even harder than they already are" and this will result in none of the girls being willing to contact you, or to try to persuade their mother into letting them see you or their dad.

So possess you soul in patience, and sent the eldest granddaughter a letter on her 18th birthday telling her that you hope that you could meet up, now that she is an adult.

I realise two years is a long time to wait, but honestly, what else can you do? Making a difficult family situation worse certainly will not help.

Elaine1 while I quite understand your point, many mothers use this to “get at” the man who left them. In our case the girl got pregnant within a month of meeting and of course, that relationship was not based on love. My SIL has never even raised his voice, let alone screamed at the kids, hit them (including in the school playground) and destabilised two small children. She has made up so many lies and even told them to the court. I know they are lies as I am a witness. This thread is about this particular situation where mothers have nearly all the control, not the reverse. Many men give up due to the costs mounting and the so-called abused women claiming free legal aid. Our one claimed her ex had beaten her up in late pregnancy and she’d gone to hospital. No one checked the record, they just believed her. It simply isn’t true. She is an abused women for two things officially, he didn’t tell her how much he earned (she didn’t either) - (financial abuse) and because he shouted and swore at her and the child (emotional abuse). She gets free legal aid whereas we have to pay. We have recordings of her verbal abuse on my SIL and the children, which SS acknowledge. In reality he is the abused person. Her solicitor is the worst kind of human being and couldn’t care less about the children, only about what he pockets from legal aid. It’s a sham and really awful for the genuinely abused people out there and the poor confused children. Women know this and share exactly what to do between themselves, whilst poor men are like rabbits in the headlights.

I so agree with the above Nantoone. Of course mothers need to protect their children, and so do fathers. It is supposed to be a partnership.

Of course there is abuse, and this should be dealt with.

My son's partner has refused all offers of help/mediation/family therapy etc even though she claims she is vulnerable. Why? Because she wants to perpetuate this idea that her child's father is a bad man and a threat to 'her' daughter.

Years ago I would have objected to this view of women, but now I know that some women are not just like this, they are supported in their lies and manipulations and meanwhile children suffer and men have to be happy with the crumbs.

It needs addressing for the children's sake.

Keepingquiet I totally agree with you. I had no experience of this behaviour and have been so shocked by the deceitful ness. She told the court that my SIL had threatened her mother in a phone call. Luckily it had been recorded and my SIL is kind, generous and thoughtful in it. Record everything I say.

I am back in court next week. I can't give details but the last hearing my son's ex was destroyed by the magistrate. It was no fun listening to the debacle. She still insisted, as is her right, on another hearing.

What a terrible waste of time and money- just to spend time with your own flesh and blood. It is ridiculous.

In my view the court are not interested in he said/she said/ they said. They only take note of Cafcass and what is in the child's interest, or not as the case may be.

Germanshepherdsmum

It is possible that they genuinely don’t want to see their father and haven’t been manipulated. My son refused to see his father. Entirely his own decision.

Exactly this.

keepingquiet

I am back in court next week. I can't give details but the last hearing my son's ex was destroyed by the magistrate. It was no fun listening to the debacle. She still insisted, as is her right, on another hearing.

What a terrible waste of time and money- just to spend time with your own flesh and blood. It is ridiculous.

In my view the court are not interested in he said/she said/ they said. They only take note of Cafcass and what is in the child's interest, or not as the case may be.

Magistrates don’t deal with these matters - and of course courts decide what is in the children’s best interests. Do you think that is wrong? The interests of the children are paramount. I get the impression you think that your son’s, and your, interests should be the most important consideration. That explains a lot.

I’m not suggesting this is the case with you, but one of my granddaughters, for very good reason no longer wants anything to do with her birth father.
He will tell anyone who will listen, that it’s my daughter preventing him seeing her, not true, that he’s done everything to try and be a good dad, absolutely not true.
Sometimes children come to their own decisions, no one coerces them.

Very true. If anyone listened to my ex mil they would think her son was a saint. He was anything but, and the court social worker gently found that out. A father is not prevented from having access to his child without good reason. Mothers will of course see only the best in their son, not knowing or believing what goes on behind closed doors.