To Nativity or not to Nativity?

I'm not sure if it's true. Admittedly not all classes in a school do a nativity, but at least one class does each year. My grandchildren had a Christingle service at the local church today. I hope that counts as a Nativity. Every year two years are involved and the whole school goes.

As an agnostic, I think that the nativity play should stay. It teaches children what the history and origins of Christmas are, and they would not get far in the appreciation of western art and music without that knowledge.

The Christmas story is I always feel a potent metaphor for the recognition of there being strength in weakness; of might not always being right or what matters. The image of a baby as bringing a message of hope has a lot of relevance to how we might live, even if you do not know whether there is a god.

My DGS's school performed a rather clever play which managed to incorporate the nativity as well as Father Christmas. Small groups of children were enacting Christmas stories and singing both carols and secular songs. I thought it was a very good balance. It was charming and easy for the children to perform and held the spirit of Christmas very much at its heart.

Totally agree, Mishap!

(Love the spirit of some primary schools - in an effort o be inclusive at DGS's school, each wise man had three assistants.)

I wonder how many they did have, Ariadne. I can't imagine they really did that long journey on their own without some sort of retinue.

My grandsons school did a nativity play this year and it was lovely. To me it's all about a religion that teaches love and forgiveness and that should never be politically incorrect.

I think the vicar should do less criticising of others and concentrate on spreading the spirit of good will.

DGS2 attends a multicultural nursery which celebrates ALL the major festivals. They "rotate" a traditional Nativity play, the Night Before Christmas and another more secular but Christmas-themed "Jingle" and all the tinies are enthusiastic participants! DGS1 is now at a C of E primary school which as expected puts on a traditional Nativity play. I do think it is important to continue the tradition of the Nativity play since for many children this is their only experience of a story which is fundamental to our European culture.

The DGDs nativity plays (Foundation phase and play group) managed to incorporate other elements, one based around a grumpy snowman and the other included toys being prepared for Christmas. Both nativity plays with a twist (especially when poor baby Jesus landed on his head in the play group nativity) but both lovely and the children enjoyed it as much as we did.

I was appalled last year to go to a carol service where the Methodist minister gave the mainly adult congregation a lecture on what the real birth of Jesus would have been like. There were a few children there and I was cross on their behalf as it destroyed some of the magic the nativity holds for children. The reality of unmarried pregnant Mary, older Joseph who married her out of the goodness of his heart, a 'belief' in an angel which probably did not exist, stinking shepherds and the fact that Jesus would not actually have been born in a stable at all was an unnecessary lecture too far at that time of year.

If this minister wished to debate the reality as he understands it versus the version told to children over the centuries all well and good - but not at a carol service in front of children at Christmas time.
DH went to a carol service in the same church this year and apparently the minister went through the whole rigmarole again.

I think it is such a shame that the traditional Nativity seems to be dying out in favour of Humphrey the camel or the grumpy penguin or something similar. I love to hear small children singing Away in a Manger

I'm not religious but I prefer a nativity play - after all that's what Christmas is supposed to be about. I think to suggest a more modern interpretation is OK but perhaps rosequartz's vicar went over the top a bit, although I don't see why children being present should be a particular issue.

I like a Nativity play and as has been said before it teaches the children the story that the Christmas celebration is based on.

Oh, no, he isn't our vicar, our vicar 'does do a lovely service' as they say

It was the local Methodist minister, we only went there for a carol service , me last year with TWG and DH this year with a group he belongs to. I must say it put me off going methodist!

Eloethan I think telling children of six or seven that the nativity did not happen as they believe and how children's nativity plays would suggest, that the reality was miserable, stinking and not at all a good experience is uncalled for. Rather like the curate who told the primary school children this week that Father Christmas does not exist. Time enough for reality when they are a bit older. (Anyway, I know he does )

When I was teaching I pointed out that Santa was very busy on Christmas Eve and if you didn't bother to believe in him why should he bother to visit you. I knew he existed because he came to my house on Christmas Eve whilst I was out at Midnight Mass. I would go out at 11pm and there would be no presents under the tree but when I came back at 1am there would be piles of presents. Someone tried to persuade me that my husband (ex) used to do it whilst we were out but I know that's not true cos he was too drunk by midnight

vq look out at 6pm on Christmas Eve and you will see him going over, if you get your telescope out you may even see Rudolph's nose!!

I do not think there is any need to specifically tell children that the nativity did not happen (or at least not in the way that they depict it in their plays) - saying "Christian's believe that....." seems to cover it for me; and then when they celebrate some other festival, they can learn that "Hindus believe that...." - etc.

It is all cultural education and of value.

Not sure how I feel- in a way I hate all the lies we tell the children- and wonder hos they can trust us and listen when it is important. Agree about kids having the right to be kids... and that there is plenty of time for 'reality' later. But feel uncomfortable when kids and now grandkids ask direct questions, and have to look them in the eyes and confirm the lies. They go to a CofE school, and are told all the traditional stuff, and I know GS is already thinking 'hmmmm' - and I have to be very vague when I reply (and he's picked up on it too). He is 9 and his little sister 5, so we will have Father Christmas's visit, leave a glass of good malt and mince pies for him- and have bells in the middle of the night, etc.

I've heard vicars belittle and mock other religious beliefs in school assemblies many a time- wish I had complained then, as the school was very multicultural and his comments were out of order, totally.

Little white lies, a pretence to keep up the magic of Christmas are fine, I think, granjura. I don't remember thinking that I shouldn't trust my mother when I found out about FC or the tooth fairy! It's more of a rite of passage - and just think how important 8 or 9 year olds feel when they 'know' and are trusted to keep the magic going for younger relatives and friends.
When they get to the stage when they start asking I would think it is time to tell the truth.

All part of the Magic of Christmas IMO, certainly didn"t do harm, from what I can see . FHS.

Oh I forgot to put a smiley up.

We've all survived believing in the myths of the nativity and Santa Claus. So our grandchildren aren't going to be any more traumatised than we were when we 'grew out of' these beliefs. granjura, were you less trusting of your parents when you outgrew what you call the 'lies' surrounding Christmas? I certainly wasn't.

I certainly wasn"t either, and they weren't LIES as such , TBF, it was all just pretence to make us happy and has been going on for so many, many years.

I think Navity Plays are a joy.

Our schools celebrate other ceremonies such as Dewali etc. so Christmas, Easter etc should be part of our children's understanding of the faiths of the world but I am saddened by the need of mulitculturism that is being imposed whereby we are being made to feel the term Christmas must be changed to Winter Festival or some other such name. Ridiculous.

Rosequartz

My friend told me about the 'Santa in the Sky ' that is being beamed around the world by satellite.

I must admit I don't quite follow what's happening but we will look for it too.

No, I agree anno- I wasn't traumatised by those 'lies' ;) But I definitely feel uncomfortable lying to my GS because I know he trusts me so absolutely totally. Question is, where do we draw the line? We have family from lots of different Christian denominations, but also who are Muslims with very different interpretations too. And friends from all sorts of other religions. So our grandchildren could be 'exposed' to not just one set of things we do not believe in, but lots, religious or traditional. It could get a bit complicated;). T'was bad enough growing up split between a Catholic and a Protestant family.

But don't worry, I won't let it spoil our Christmas nor worry about it. Being at a C of E school, he sometimes comes home with some real gems and asks about it- and I try my best to answer as thruthfully and simply as I can... ;)