elderly in hospital

Jangran...sure thing...

silverstar I'm about to write my letter and shall close with these words - May I suggest that either a culture of care and responsibility for the elderly is prioritised, instigated and maintained - or voluntary euthanasia is made legal...as I, for one, have no intention of subjecting myself to a distressing and humiliating demise in a couldn't care less hospital ward...

The Oxford English Dictionary definition of:

nurse - a person trained to care for the sick and infirm, especially in a hospital.

nursing - the profession or practice of providing care for the sick and infirm.

I feel so much better for writing to www.info.doh.gov/uk/contactus It's surprising how venting one's anger/frustration can put a spring in the step. Gransnetters - please get writing. It gives power to our cause. Wish that I could add a symbol for "we can do it!"

twizzle...YES! Include the definition when you communicate.

Visiting my mother a few weeks before she died we found her in a side ward at the furthest point away from the nurses's station. The room was stifling and the sun was right on her face. She was tucked up so tightly in the bed, she couldn't have moved even if she was able. Her face was just visible above the blanket, and she was sweating and screwing her eyes closed against the sun. She whispered "My eyes, my eyes". She was unable to tolerate light at the best of times and was in so much pain from the sun and the subsequent headache. I closed the blinds and went to get the nurse to lift her into a more comfortable position as she was so frail we were afraid we would hurt her if we tried to move her. The nurses came in, tying aprons on themselves and pulling on gloves. When they left, without a word, a visitor who happened to have been standing against the open door, moved, and we saw the notice on the door saying "MRSA. Do not enter without permission."

My brother went to query this with the nurses who said that MRSA was suspected and they were waiting for test results to confirm it. As any half intelligent person would, my brother asked why visitors had been able to enter the room, (as the door was open when we got there we hadn't noticed the notice! ) Why, when the nurses came into the room had they not warned us? Furthermore, the nurses had protected themselves, so why were we left to God and providence to hold my mother's hand and stroke her head? The nurse replied that "Well, we don't know yet whether it is MRSA."

Clearly, some nurses aren't even among the half-intelligent.

You really couldn't make this up could you? As someone has said here, the fear is that politicians try to make a name for themselves by making grand gestures and whilst they grandstand people die on their watch. And the medical staff, the good ones, where is their outrage? Journalists have taken up the cudgel, we are trying to make someone listen, but why aren't we hearing the voice of the doctors and the decent nurses? What an absolutely appalling state of affairs when my mother's Consultant for Elderly Care told us to make a formal complaint because her hands are tied by managers and their politician bosses. I feel sick.

After every high profile case of neglect/abuse of children, the elderly or people with learning disabilities, we are told by the 'powers that be' that "valuable lessons have been learned to prevent this kind of thing happening again"

What 'valuable lessons' have been learned if those whose responsibility it is to care are the ones who ignore even the most basic care needs of the most vulnerable people in society.

To Babyjack.

Definitely take up private healthcare for your GS.
However: BE AWARE:
Sometimes all it means that you can see a consultant quickly, who is still the same quack working at your local hospital.! He/she is moonlighting!
That is why your appointment will be either between 5 and 7 PM or between 8 and 9 AM.

If you do take private insurance, make sure the policy covers ANY consultant you wish to see. Anywhere in the country.

To MamanC,
Totally feel for you, having been there ourselves a couple of times.
Rather not elaborate, because, like yourself, I shall feel sick again!

You said: " Clearly some of the nurses aren't even half intelligent."
Well, I am prepared to go further than that!
The type of people who are in nursing now, are not of the same calibre, as those 30 years ago.
Oh, I have to stop pussyfooting about, and be very politically incorrect:
They are not even from the same background!!!!!!
Sorry, it has to be said.

Also, MamanC,
Stop being cross and upset with yourself, because you think you have failed...

Not convinced about private med. Yes you can get to see a consultant quickly. Yes if your problem is one that a private hospital can deal with i.e. elective surgery you'll have a nicer room and nicer food. At the moment however NHS waiting lists are nothing like as long as they used to be.

Private hospitals don't deal with a long list of things. Someone I know had private cover and she still had to wait her turn for radiotherapy in the NHS. If you have a heart attack the private hospital probably won't be remotely interested in you. Or if you have other types of accident or emergency. In many private hospitals they have little of no medical cover. They have consultants who come in, do operations, do rounds and then go. If you had a post surgical emergency they would be trying to call him in the middle of his golf round or NHS surgical list.

My DIL has worked in private and public cardiology departiments in Australia where there seems to be more of a dual system and says "If you ever have a heart attack in Australia don't tell them you have private cover. You get much better staffing ratios and more attention in the public hospitals. Even though you get valet parking in the private one."

Anyway lets get writing in to young Andrew. He needs to be concentrating on the care in hospitals and not his so called "reforms". Red herring or deliberate distraction technique. Discuss in no more than 100 words...

I think JessM's proposed template to Mr L is very good. What we send him has to be easy to read and to the point because he will have piles of correspondence to plough through. From reading everyone's comments to date, there seem to be 3 main areas for need and improvement - there are more but the one's that stick out appear to be:

(1) thoughtful and professional medical CARE
(2) good HYGIENE
(3) oodles of KINDNESS

In my view all three of these are BASIC requirements when looking after anyone but unfortunately each one of us I think can provide examples of the lack of each of these. Perhaps one example per point by each of us might focus Mr L's mind on the basics rather than fillyfaddling about with his proposed reforms. Nero and Rome spring to mind!

I suggest that your letters should go to your MPs with a copy to the Secretary of State. That way they may have a chance of being read. My MP, a 'new boy' still making his mark, always replies to my letters and passes on my comments to the appropriate minister.
Scots grans - aren't you lucky! You don't have to contend with this creeping privatisation of the NHS which, at this rate, may have to be renamed the SHS up your way.

I came out of hospital 3 days ago and while there I was shocked by the lack of care and lack of respect offered to the patients.
Like others on this forum I trained as a nurse in the early 70's. I think the memory of that makes me realise that it doesn't have to be so awful. It is possible to offer good care without masses of staff.

I don't think this lack of care is limited to the elderly. I was in a general medical ward.
Unfortunately most 'care' on the wards is now provided by unqualified staff.

There were some who were kind and efficient but they were in the minority.

It seems to me that it is beginning to resemble third world hospitals where it is normal for relatives to provide care.

I am going to write to the hospital and myMP.

Annobel - believe me I realise that we are more fortunate up here. There is in the media a tendency to imply that Scots are 'better off' in several ways because we are subsidised by the rest of the UK. If the financial plans which have been mooted do come to be, then we may well have to have a higher rate of local income tax. If that's the choice, then I am more than willing to pay my share to safeguard what I see as important including free personal care for the elderly at home, no prescription tax, and vitally important in this list - a NHS service which still seems to be functioning pretty well. I won't get involved in the political argument pro and con further levels of independence for Scotland ( not advocating total separation) but there is more to it than is discussed in newspapers! We are not a nation of freeloaders and perhaps, in due course, we can prove that. We do seem to have more choice in Scotland than you do down south.

Em, I know that there is a lot of exaggeration of the alleged indebtedness of Scotland to the put-upon English and also know that this is complete tosh!

Annobel - good suggestions re the MPs. Is everyone aware of the website "writetothem.com" which exists to facilitate this.

lack of kindness is so sad isn't it. How can that be made to happen?
1. recruit compassionate staff. but you have to find compassionate job applicants.
2. managers notice, measure and reward compassion. tricky too. They are probably not going to do this if THEY are being measured on other things.

In business you would say that you "wanted to build a customer focussed culture" . Not sure that we can demand kindness but we could ask to be treated as valued customers. That would be a jolly good start

Been away from Gransnet for a time as new baby grand-daughter arrived.

Can I ask if it is true that the Human Rights Act does not apply to the enlderly in Care Home and in hospitals? I have it on good authority that it does not.

What about webcams in ALL residential homes, hospitals, nurseries etc.? Surely that would stop a great deal of poor care or bad treatment if relatives or friends had a password to access these. They could then see for themselves if there was need for concern - and if so, it could be acted on instantly. We have the technology, let's use it.

Have just been 4 weeks in intensive care, then 4 weeks on ward. An operation went wrong necessitating 2 further surgeries, consequently contracted pneumonia and nearly died. I am 73, but was fit and active when I went in. I found good and bad among staff, and once I complained and matron was involved - I just thought a slap on the wrist, but the nurse (a bank nurse) was banned after from working there. The worst thing was the food (!) followed by bells not answered at night. But I still think we have a pretty good health service (have also been in Canadian hospitals and they are not perfect either - I believe the French have the best hospitals - trust them!). But I too dread being old and in hospital or care home.

I did not find any "ageism", but patients seemed mostly to be sixties to seventies and mentally fit.

nannypony...webcams are a brilliant idea. We all wish you a full and speedy recovery.

Well said nannypony. Wishing you swift and happy return to health. Please keep in touch - if we do manage to take this further then your account of your recent first-hand experience would invaluable.

This has been an issue for many years. In 1967 Barbara Robb wrote Sans Everything about the appalling treatment of the elderly in NHS care and care homes. Here is the reference which I just copied from the internet:
SANS EVERYTHING. Presented by Barbara Robb on behalf of Aid for the Elderly in Gov ernment Institutions (Aegis). London: Thomas Nelson & Sons, 1967
I hope Andrew Lansley will ask his civil servants to read this - or even read it himself. I guess that the proposed remedies in 1967 will still apply today.
Applegran

My heart goes out to all the people who have had such negative dealings with the 'care' system. My experiences however where much more positive.
My mother, who had long standing physical disabilities, had a stroke which led to her hospitalisation. After that she was assessed by our local Social Work Team for the Elderly and I was suddenly in a system which worked for both me and her.
The social worker treated me as an equal when it came to making decisions for my mum and took my needs into consideration too.
I must admit it was a very steep learning curve. I hadn't even heard of Vascular Dementia until my mum had it.
Her G.P. was abysmal but I stayed with the practice because the Social Worker was attached to it.
I felt I could 'manage' the G.P. as long as I had the Social Worker fighting my corner. She and I found a local care home who looked after my mum for 5 years up to her death. I still visit the home as a much loved neighbour now lives there. The staff still talk to me about my mum with real affection which means everything to me.
I do recognise that living close to my mum and being able to be on hand to be her advocate made things much easier.
It all depends on the quality and commitment of the professionals you have to deal with, but in my experience, if you meet them half way they will do their best for you.

at the age of 57,I spent some time in hospital ,as a result of a fall ,I had to have a metal plate inserted in my upper arm. whilst there, I had to take on the roll of 'carer' for the much older patients in my orthopaedic ward. I felt bound to feed other patients ,who were unable to feed themselves,and ignored by staff. I regularly filled water jugs,and helped other patients to drink.
I also had to press the 'call' button for others on the ward,when the buzzer hadn't been placed near enough for patients to reach.
On numberous occasions, calls were not answered for at least 20 mins-by which time-patients had no option but to wet the bed-losing dignaty ( not acceptable)
I know,with years of cut-backs,staff are hard pushed. But I'm appalled at the lack of basic care in our hospitals now.
What can we do?

I lost my Mum at the end of last November, age 94. Thank goodness she was only in hospital a month. She had lived with me and my husband for approximately 35 years. Fortunately she was in a side ward which gave her some privacy though the buzzer and her calls were not always answered very quickly. The care she received was in the main quite good but I think it was down to the fact that I and other members of the family were able to visit both afternoon and evening helping her to take soft food and thickened drinks. I did have to complain that she needed her night dress changing and she hadn't got water within her reach. She was unable to lift her arms or head and also not able to swallow, eventually (the week before she died) she had to have a feeding tube inserted. Very stressful for such an old person though she was a good patient, she didn't complain.
The last few days she went into a deep sleep and seemed totally unaware of us there. The Dr said it would not be long and I requested that if she passed away during the night that I should be informed early morning (unless she should call out for us). He agreed to let the nursing staff know. I went to visit the following afternoon and found the bed empty and stripped!! When I eventually managed to get hold of a nurse and said that I presumed my mother had passed away, she was totally dumbstruck. I don't know who was the more shocked, her or me.
After the funeral which was the week before Christmas, and after the holiday period, I wrote a complaint to the hospital concerned. I said that generally she had received good care but my concern was the lack of communication between the night and day staff. They investigated the matter and I had a letter of apology and a telephone call to discuss it and then a follow up letter telling me of the changes they were putting into place to improve contact with relatives, plus further addresses to contact if I wished to take the matter further. I left it at that as I had made the point and to be fair Mom's death was not unexpected.

Our's is not to Reason Why, Our's is but to DO and Die. Only Money can change things,and the Country is in Dept. Parliement is a talking shop full of Fat Cats with enough money between them all to sort this out. We have to Take to the Streets,and Demonstrate. Shame them into changing there ways. .