Travellers

Yes (or should it be NO?) Jacey. The point is that if it became compulsory for pensioners to downsize, then we would be breaking the law if we decided to fight to stay in our own homes.

I also feel the heartbreak of those who, having fallen on hard times, have had to give up the homes they have built themselves or which have been the family home for generations. Housing benefit is only payable up to a certain limit dependant on what 'the powers that be' decide is a big enough house for your CURRENT circumstances e.g. one bedroom for a single person or couple. This may be fair as far as the taxpayer is concerned but is so cruel for the individual affected.

To lose the home you have created is as traumatic as loosing the job that has been your life's work. People feel 'diminshed' or as if they have lost part of themselves and yet we are expected to behave ourselves and not make a fuss or cause a disturbance. What price personal freedom when 'the state' can decide what we or in this case the travellers can do on THE LAND THAT THEY OWN and the houses they built there.

First they came for the Travellers.......

But the state can decide what I can do on the land that I own and what I can build on it and if I do not follow the rules they can and will enforce it in the courts. So what personal freedom do I have?

Very little Pennysue, just like the rest of us

Surely the point is that the travellers built the site illegally? If I were to build an extension to my house without planning permission I would probably have to pull it down. Why should the travellers ( and I agree that there doesn't seem to have been much travelling done) be any different?

Surely the point is that the Council (and Councils elsewhere) have not provided places for travellers as they are supposed to. So, the councils have also broken the law it seems to me.
Where are all these people going to go?
The law is not black and white - its changes over time in any case. It is not fixed in stone. Sometimes needs and "rights" overlap and this has to be taken into consideration. Freedom and equality do not always sit well together........

That's the point nannym ...no one has a problem with the legal site there ...it's the "illegal" aspect that is the issue. After all ...this council has already given them the largest "travellers" site in the country.

They could always travel - or would that be a silly idea?

Why does anybody have to provide a site for these people to live on ? Has any Gran on here been given a plot of land to build their house on ? No I thought not. Land has to be bought with money earned from working and the relevant taxes paid.
We have jumped through hoops and paid out vast amounts of money to make sure our extension conformed to every regulation known to the building trade because we could have been made to pull it down if it did not. Angry does not cover it.

Had a wry smile at the heart-rending pix of a 'courageous' woman holding a crucifix high against the wicked police that adorns the front pages this morning. Even the Daily Torygraph described her as a traveller. Er no. She is a renta-anarchist with a good understanding of PR who arrives at any any establishment cause. But never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.....

I saw that too, there has been so much manipulation of and by the press. I don't think travellers really want to travel any more, nor do they wwant to pay taxes etc; like the rest of us have to.

I guess if you are born into the gipsy/traveller community, probably going back generations, it must be hard to change your way of life. Even if you don't want to actually travel anymore. Councils don't like them travelling because they end up illegally on roadside verges. That's probably why they allow the few legal sites that they do.

It's a difficult one.

Before long, the so-called, hard-done-by "travellers" will sell their stories to the press - become the new 'celebs' - get a handsome reward for yacking on about the mess that they have created...and the rest of us get on with abiding by the rules and paying our dues. I'm LIVID!

Actually, it's not difficult. There should be more legal sites and the police should do their job fairly and well to safeguard all concerned.

I wish.

Council Tax isn't a tax on property anymore is it? Not like the old Rates were. Or is it? Not sure.

If not, why shouldn't they pay what they can fairly afford? If that's not much, well who'd envy that?

jinglej I do think they can afford to pay their way with regard to Council Tax etc,media information (but who can trust if true) state's that the person who bought the land in the first place has property worth million's in County Limerick so where does all this money come from I wonder and is it come by legally I ask.

Sorry JJ but it isn't difficult ...if they want to live a more settled life then they need to abide by our laws and pay their contributions to access the amenities, that we all still contribute to via a range of taxes.

Curious ...what have you got against the police?? ...'should do their job fairly'??
Oh so true whatamess!

What have I got against the police? How about the brutality that my grandsons have seen on television news? These days they play at policemen and look as though they are killing people!

"should do their job fairly" - if travellers break the law the police should deal with the crime in exactly the same way they would non-travellers.

Thanx jj ...I was just curious ...or may be nosey?

Yes, Carboncareful - something has gone wrong; why did it to this, when the councils must have known for years that the law was being broken? And yes, sites should be provided. Trouble in, no one will want them!

Did you think I had had my own personal little run-in with the law jacey?!

Oh bless you jinglej ...no I didn't

Do understand what you mean about children seeing things on the news that can be inappropriate ...a case in point being some of the Gaddaffi pictures earlier tonight ...at least yahoo gave a warning and one could decide whether to view them or not.

The traveller saga seems to be over: they've departed peacefully in the end. From what I can pick up, most of the violence was from the outsiders who were there to 'support' them.

Just to clarify misunderstandings. they do own the land; but it is green belt land and they are not allowed to build on it. They knew this but built anyway, then cried foul when they were taken to task. They dragged it out for 10 years using the law - although they were quite happy to break the law at the same time.

I think other travellers will come to hate the Dale Farm people, because I doubt it there will be a council in Britain who will not be watching new traveller arrivals with deep suspicion, especially if they buy green belt land, and every area will have residents watching out at bank holidays for illegal buildings.

carbon you seem to be missing the point. The council HAD provided a legal site, but these so called travellers decided that it wasn't big enough, took the law into their own hands (and by doing so broke it!) and extended it. They knew damn well that planning permission would be refused but went ahead anyway. How anyone can have any sympathy for these people is completely beyond me.

nannym

supernana thank you, rant over now