To think Liz Jones is a bitter and twisted old hag?

lily you may be right.. she may have simply created a persona and the real Liz Jones lives a normal, happy life in Surbiton, or somewhere equally innocuous, making a good living stirring up GN & MS forum contributers through her fictional column!

PS Sorry to bang on about it but I still find the generic use of 'The Arabs' a bit troubling..

Sel actually said her horses were sold to 'Arab stables' crimson - not 'The Arabs'.

If I reply, Lilygran, this might go to the top of the active list and jingle will go into meltdown

I do see where you're coming from with LJ. When her diary first appeared in the You mag some years ago I though it was a piss take wind up. Bit by bit she appeared all over the DM, mostly bleating on about her life and everyone who treats her so badly. If it weren't for other people (who obviously know her) writing about her I would think her 'character' was fictional as well. I don't think it is though. I think she believes in the monster she has created. I know Sel and others don't agree but that's fine. I know I've upset some on here by being so critical of LJ and maybe she is happy in the knowledge that if you give it out you must expect it back but I stand by my opinion.

LJ won't stop at Clare Balding. There will already be someone else in her sights.

Sorry. That last bit of my post is confusing. I meant LJ giving it out, not Sel

Ana; when people sell horses they sell them to the Arabs, the Irish; if they're not very good they're sold to the Italians. She didn't say which stable she referred to so I just said 'to the Arabs'. Was it Godolphin or were they sent to Dubai? If she points out which stable it was I'll ask gransnet to amend my offensive post . I'd be interested to know where they are and what they're doing. I can't believe that anyone would think I'm racist in any way; in fact I'm pretty upset by the accusation. But in answer to the question posed by the title of the thread; yes; she is. Even if not on the outside certainly from the inside.

Who accused you of being racist, crimson? Or said your post was offensive?

I can see you feel strongly about this subject, but I was merely pointing out that Sel didn't actually use the phrase 'The Arabs'.

I don't have a problem with your post, crimson. It's horse racing speak and nothing to do with being racist.

Sorry, sorry - just realised my post should have been addressed to nanaej ! crimson, I really do apologise - whatever must you have thought of me?

And looking back again, I've realised that I don't know whether nanaej was referring to Sel's post or crimson's, so I'm doubly humiliated and humbled.

Told yer! This thread should have been knocked on the head ages ago!

It's cursed. Tried to PM crimson but she's gone...

Oh dear. Thanks Ana At one point - 20+ years ago, I had five horses racing in this country, it was very expensive and I only twice went to actually watch them race as I was too busy making money to pay for their training fees! Did have a winner at Sandown and another at York. Whoo! I know crimson knows her bloodstock so would possibly know their names. I did enjoy visiting their stables which were in Stamford but couldn't quite equate the beautiful animals they were with the fact they actually had to make money. They didn't have a choice. When I was young I had to save up money from part time jobs to have riding lessons and I always loved horses with a passion.

A decision was made to sell them, dispose of an asset if you like. Luckily, they were good enough that when they sold, at auction a couple went to the UAE to someone who's name began with Sheik Al one to the US, one Sweden and one remained in this country. They will be dead now - if they continued to make money then maybe they did enjoy the rest of their lives. If they didn't, goodness knows what happened to them.

These were not jump racers. I find the use of the whip in racing upsetting and the point I was trying to make about LJ is, she is passionate about animals and as such, probably does have an issue with anyone associated with the industry. For that's what it is. I don't have an issue with comments on here about racing, I was trying to explain why LJ may feel the way she does.

hey don't think I was accusing anyone of racism..maybe just a bit of thoughtlessness in using a generic term that covers many different people from many different places..

Put in the context of the racing world..which I know nothing about.. I now understand that this may be a specifically understood term referring to the horse racing community in gulf states.. fine I understand now.

You're making a lot of sense to me Sel

petallus phew, doesn't often happen

sel Just because L J is kind to animals and spends lots of money rescuing them, it does not absolve her from being very spiteful and insulting to the people she writes about.

Nelliemoser it's part of the job description for female columnists - I also like Julie Birchill and JSP - neither are exactly sweetness and light in their comments about others.

It's very sad that crimson seems to have gone. I believe she has been here from the beginning of gransnet. Hope she returns

I also like Julie Birchill and JSP - in fact I love Birchall's columns, and then again I hate them when she's rabidly supporting Israel!

Very cowardly of The Observer to pull her recent article.

I have just read this thread because someone PM'd me about crimson because they were upset that she has gone. So am I. I do hope she is lurking somewhere and will come back. If you are please PM me crimson. No we are not particular friends but we did chat at the Midlands meet.

I know nothing about this journalist and think that is probably a good thing.

I think CB is a very good journalist and presenter.

I just don't understand what is so wrong with racing being a business, will someone please explain? I think it is very likely that racehorses are treated extremely well and that their care is monitored closely by the authorities. In such a sport we would soon hear about any cruelty.

Many years ago I heard a radio programme presented by Angela Rippon entitled 'Raw Meat and Tutus'. It was about all the people who trained to be ballet dancers and didn't make it for, very often, minor reasons. It was, and is, a very competetive environment, just like horse racing but, unlike horse racing, no one cares when you are past it and you won't go off into stud or any other care! Young ballet dancers are not monitored by doctors in the same way as horses are monitored by vets!

I know exactly how to put an end to this thread – mention Hitler! He was a vegetarian, verging on vegan, and was kind to animals too. There – has that done it?

No, probably not

Anyway, I don't believe it.

Why do we need to put an end to it?

absent That wonderful comment shows just why we missed you!

This is known as Godwin's Law - once anybody brings Hitler into a debate they have lost, and the thread is nearly finished!
I lost interest in the arguments about horse racing pretty quickly!