to feel despair at the gay marriage vote

That's just it you cant discriminate and have one law or one and another law for the other.

Bags and Granjura. Totally agree about getting married in church or being a godparent if you are not a believer. Many times my DD has had to explain to her Grandmother why she had a civil wedding and why my DGS has not been christened. She thinks it would be hypercritical as she does not believe.

A church wdedding gives the occasion a solemnity a registry office can't give, and therefore provide a good start, belief or not.

And they are enjoyable and pretty. Why deny anyone that?

Perhaps for those few brief moments they will believe.

Rubbish! My register office wedding was as solemn as it could be.

And just as solemn as a church wedding could be too. I do wish people wouldn't talk such bullshit about non-religious activities!

I can't agree that that is possible. Sorry.

No need to be sorry. But what you said is still crap.

I married in church in spite of my agnostic views - it meant a great deal to my very religious MIL and did me no harm, and it set ourt relationship off on a good footing. That can be a reason why people choose a church wedding - to please other members of the family. I regard that as a christian act!

I am sad that this thread has lost the plot a bit and that maries felt she had to float away.

Posting things that might be controversial is fine - I once posted something that was rightly interpreted as anti-dog and I got ready to duck - but there was no problem - people respected my view and the reasons that had caused it, and no blood spilt! That is how it should be.

No blood has been spilt on this thread, mishap. The only thing that's happened is that maries has apparently gone off in a huff in spite of assuring us that she was remaining quite cool and unperturbed by the subject. Things she said were argued with by several people, and a couple of things she said were laughed at by a few people. That's all.

Almost twenty five years ago, Mr soop and I were married in a register office, surrounded by family and friends. It was a very enjoyable occasion and as solemn as it needed to be. We then walked hand in hand through the charming town of Oundle. It was, for us, the perfect start to a very successful marriage.

On pain of being bombed out for repetition: it is not logically possible to respect all views. Think about it! Do you, for instance, respect the view that it's OK to flog a child for a minor misdemeanour?

It is possible, and quite easy, to respect the humanity of all people, even when they hold views that it is logically impossible to respect. So you wouldn't, necessarily, want to flog the person who thought it was OK to flog kids.

Sorry for the cross posting, soop, but it really gets on my wick that people can't or won't see the glaring difference between respecting views/beliefs and respecting people.

Hands up who respects the view that the punishment doled out in some countries of stoning people to death is a reasonable thing to do?

Anyone?

No, thought not.

BTW, mishap, I think doing something to please someone else is often a perfectly good reason. I respect that view.

But not all views.

Okay, so you don't respect the belief that people should be stoned to death.

But you do respect the people who hold those beliefs.

Have I got it?

Yes, because it quite possibly isn't entirely their fault that they hold those views. It's quite likely in fact that they've been indoctrinated with ridiculous odeas since they were infants and have had very little educatoin by which they could learn to question things and think for themselves, not to mention coming upon ideas other than what they've been told all their lives.

So even if someone thinks cruelty is a good thing, that doesn't give us an excuse for being cruel to them.

Well I don't respect them however sincere they may think they are.
Am I going off at a whole new tangent however? Feel free to ignore.

So, one abhors the idea that stoning to death is a good thing, but one does not abhor the person who thinks it. One abhors the ideas that have led them to think something so ridiculous.

What about people who think homosexuals are evil?

Do you respect them?

graces, look at the little exchange between jings and me further up this thread, in which I say something she said is bullshit. I respect jings; I do not respect the idea, which she happened to voice and which she apparently holds. that church weddings are fundamentally superior in any way to register office weddings.

I don't respect the idea that homosexuals are evil.

Cogito ergo sum. How do you separate the thoughts from the person - I know we have had all this, so please ignore, I am thinking aloud.
I can respect the sincerity of a person with misguided views, I think, an example would be religious or patriotic views that a person was prepared to die for but not the views or necessarily the person. Oh too philosophical and complicated.

I think people who hold that idea are wrong to do so, but they are still people and I wouldn't wish them harm.

What if you separate the person's behaviour from their person, graces?

Mind you, I think you're right – there are people who do not deserve respect because they choose to act in an evil way.

But even those people might hold views that are sound and able to be respected.

Views and the person holding the views are separate.

Behaviour, I agree, is harder to separate from the person, but we do try to do that with children, don't we? We try to explain to them that we still love them and that it's certain behaviour we don't like.

Mishap I remember telling us about your mil before- and I totally agree that you did this for all the right reasons. I personally would not have done so- but it is just me. Our wedding day was such an important day for OH and I, and I felt it was OUR day - and therefore WE had to be happy with what we were doing and how. I would have felt as though I was lying about our marriage- and would have felt VERY uncomfortable about it. But i certainly would never criticise you for doing so. But I do object to people using the Church as a 'Holywood' or Celebrity magazine sets, or a frame for a beautiful dress. To me that smacks of total irrespect for those who do believe in the santicty of the Church and ceremony - and must be dreadful for the Vicar who must feel 'used' for the wrong reasons, for the photos and the video.

And I am an atheist. Same for gay marriage in Church, in many ways. Either you do, or you don't , in my book. Call me a puritan if you wish