to feel despair at the gay marriage vote

Why is it always assumed that christians are opposed to same sex marriage. I am a catholic. I have been advocating same sex marriage for at least the last 30 years, probably longer.

Marriage is not about a union between a man and a woman. It is about sex. A marriage can be annulled both religiously and legally on grounds of non-consummation. The purpose of marrage is to nurture and protect the physical relationship between consenting adults and this has always applied whether or not children were born from the relationship. In the past because of the then limited understanding of the wide spectrum of sexual attraction and commitment this has always been held to apply to heterosexual relationships only but our wider understanding and realisation that homosexuality is part of the very wide spectrum of sexual development has changed this and I think the laws on marrage should change to meet this understanding.

Isn't one of the things that sex is for is enjoyment? And giving pleasure to your partner? And helping you to bond? Surely we have moved beyond the purely reproductive imperative? It stopped being my reason for having sex after my second child was born!

Snap, Flickety - I typed before I saw your post.

Yes. Of course. For us, sex is most often just for pleasure. But in the way of the natural world, the pleasure thing is to attract us to doing it. So that we further the species.

It's good to enjoy it. Whichever way it takes your fancy.

There are 2 C of S ministers locally, one of whom has mentioned tolerance many times in recent sermons, and gives a strong impression that he will be happy to conduct a same sex marriage when they are legal here (yesterday's vote, correct me if I'm wrong, please, was just for E & W). The other one has said in so many words that he will be delighted to have a chance to perform one. Both are Christians, as am I, and I have no problem with it either. There is not enough love in this world, and so I think we should make the most of it where it exists. Anyone who feels that this is wrong is equally entitled to her/his own opinion. Nobody is going to be forced into doing something they are uncomfortable with.

Sorry folks. I for one used christians as a term when perhaps I should have been saying christians-who-are-vociferously-opposed-to -gay-marriage
I think we are all fully aware that opinion is very mixed.
Another way of looking at marriage is that it is an institution designed to protect women and children who are less powerful in society than men.
Yet another way of looking at marriage is that it is a patriarchal institution designed to control the sexuality of women and reassure men of paternity.
It's rather a lot of things isnt it. Depending on your point of view and the historical moment in which you are looking at it.

I wonder why marriage reassures men of paternity.

Gives them legal rights over any children born within the marriage maybe.

I guess, petallus the idea was that you din it into women's heads that adultery is a sin. And everyone else's head - married women off limits. Adulteresses deserve to be stoned in public, that kind of thing. And scare married women off the idea.
Honour cultures take this to an extreme degree - the honour of the family is inextricably linked to the honour of the whole family. Any sexual transgressions by either married or unmarried women bring shame on the whole family. Within our lifetimes there was an element of this in UK society.
More I think about it, the more I'm beginning to wonder why gay people aspire to marriage

Same reasons as hetrosexuals?

It's an odd thing that it's only women who have an organ that has no other function than to provide pleasure... at least those who have not been exposed to the evil of circumcision do...

I can't believe someone wants to leave GN because some people hold different views.
I have plenty of gay friends. One couple I know from New York met when they were in the US Army when they were 19 years old. Now in their sixties they are together still. Would you say their relationship isn't as committed as a hetrosexual couple? Why should their relationship not be recognised legally other then a 'civil arrangement' - those who practice a religion are unable to marry - why? The Bible was written thousands of years ago when mans' outlook was completely different, its about time that its' outlook was modernised.

Dorsetpennt.

I totally agree with you. Sadly, there are those who think only their point of view is valid. I have found that they are normally the ones who actually cannot explain their view, they just have it. The only thing that make a mockery of marriage is those who make the vows, be it in church or in a civil ceremony and don't keep them.

Feetlebaum! rude !

I can understand and to some degree sympathise with those who feel uneasy about a major change to a much cherished institution. Despair, on the other hand, seems an extreme reaction.

Particularly the Old Testament, where people were severely punished by God for transgressions. I thought Jesus came to transform this, by suffering for our sins, and to teach love and tolerance? But I do accept that men (and I mean men) have interpreted it all to suit themselves over the centuries!

j08 Sez you!

Ariadne In fact, 'Jesus' (Yeshua) was a great supporter of the Jewish laws, although he dismissed them when it was to his advantage. That's if he did anything we've been told about - there is no way of knowing.

Sorry feetlebaum. I was trying to be Miranda-ish.

Gays answer before God for themselves. What I feel is that anybody in this country can start a church so why don't the gays have their own church and ceremony. In law they are joined. Jesus can still be the head of their church-why do they need the Church of England to change its rules etc

I didn't think anyone was asking the Church of England to change it rules.

marthanne I am quite astonished at your suggestion that Gays should have their own church and ceremony

Please NO J08

Stuff I have been reading in the last few days leads me to suspect that for many gays the importance of this vote was in social recognition of their equal standing with heteros rather than a strong desire to be married in church.

No church is being either asked or required to change its practice. But any denomination who wishes to, will now be allowed, in law, to solemnise a marriage between two same sex people.