cut out of thier lives 2

I really feel for you smileless having been deprived of contract myself! albeit over the course of a year. I will never forget those feelings, though, waking up in tears and yearning to see the child I had been so close to since a few minutes after his birth. Happily, that period is over now. I'll see him as usual tomorrow, when he spends the day at his dad's. I spent over a year censoring everything I wanted to say, for fear it would be reframed into something ex-DiL would take umbrage to.

Can I ask about the phrase you use - 'say to my face what you've been saying behind my back?' If those are the words you used, some people would experience them as confrontational and hostile, and not feel like engaging with someone who would issue such words to them. Is there any chance that the exchange of words like this might make things worse, or not help things to improve? Is this typical of the exchange of words you and your son have been having?

I'm sure it's all a lot more complex than the simple exchange of words, and I hope sincerely that things change for the better for you and the other Gransnetters on here who aren't seeing their much-loved grandchildren.

Evening ladies. As we all know, those of us in this terrible situation all have our own ways of trying to deal with it. Opening accounts for children is no longer as easy as it used to be. Due to concerns with money laundering etc. various documentation is required to open an account in the name of a child, I looked in to this not long after my gs was born as we were going to open an account for him in his name and his father's. Thank you for your suggestion dollie but opening a savings account for our gs whilst he is a minor is not a viable option.

No matter what may have transpired, it is a very sorry state of affairs when grandparents are met with such hateful recriminations when all they wanted to do was give their gs a small gift (it was only a book 'Twas The Night Before Christmas') for Christmas.

Due to my own father's behavior our children never knew or had any contact with their paternal great gm or indeed their gfather, my father. When she passed away they received a savings book each with money she had put away for them over the years. I thought at the time that to have received cards, not even presents, from her during her life time would have been more meaningful.

Of course we all have our opinions, that is what makes this forum so helpful. If I was not in the situation I am in, I would have found it almost impossible to believe that children from caring and loving homes could turn on their own parents in this way, and use their own children as weapons to inflict pain and suffering; just because they can.

As for me and my hubby, no we are not perfect and as in all relationships things are done and said that hurt and upset others. We have reflected. We have spent many heart breaking hours trying to understand why our s chooses to treat us in this way.

We have done nothing to deserve this and as far as I am aware our s and his wife are the only 2 people who think we have. Despite his cruel and bitter note delivered to us on Christmas Eve, I have given my s an open invitation to come down the road and see me, and then he will have the opportunity to say to my face what he has been saying behind my back. So far he has failed to do so.

If he really believes we deserve to be treated in this way, and it is acceptable for him to deny his s his paternal grandparents, why doesn't he come round and say so. I used to believe like you Pennstemon that there are always two sides to any situation.

This nightmare situation has shown me that this is not always the case.

Thank you one and all for your input.

Penstemmon Like you, I have no personal experience of this particular situation, but your comment about accepting some responsibility being a pre-requisite for changing oneself, and resolution of a problem, rings so true.

I know people mean well but can never understand the reasoning behind saving money for an estranged grandchild /ren when we die ours are in our will and who knows how long we will have in my opinion it is vital to keep a link going however fragile with indirect contact, of course that is just my opinion.

What happened to smiless was unforgivable but then I was arrested for delivering my Grandaughter 1st birthday present at least it brought the police too our way of thinking and it was explained to our daughter that we are entitled to send gifts letters cards to our grandchildren.

Sorry if you have experienced mental health problems penstemon or your family has.

Do hope you ok yogagirl and smiless we walked Rosie long way to get eggs.
Did battle sales yesterday but a halfhearted oh accepted 2 hour parking ticket so a little tiff brewed. Never mind managed get 3 tops!
Today very naughty on eating the sweets not had dinner yet as rather queasy! Just had compulsive eating of all choc eclairs in Hero tin had no control!

Whilst I am not in the awful situations some of you find yourselves in with regard to estrangement from grandchildren I feel I can still offer my opinion.

I think each person has to deal with their particular situation as the see fit for their circumstances. Some will feel it important for regular 'contact' via gifts, cards etc when others will find it more expedient to invest funds for the future as regular contact by post may be feel like 'picking at a scab' or know it will be perceived as an antagonistic act.

I do believe there are always two sides to a disagreement..hard for the person hurt to accept but often the ability to be reflective helps to start a resolution to the difficulty. I have this experience from a different situation where I felt I was the 'innocent' party. Until I was ready to accept some responsibility I was not able to change myself or the situation. I know mental health issues can also make things more difficult but there are good support groups for family members coping with family members with mental health difficulties.

Hoping you all find positive solutions to your unhappy situations

theres really no 'point' i was making we all deal with things differently and our circumstances are all different ...it was just my opinion ....

Dollie that is not the point a little one will have no idea of grandparents if there is no letters cards or pressies arriving why be airbrushed into oblivion.?

We fought long and hard for the permission to send presents and have no intention of ever stopping.

Smileless you must do what you feel ok with. Personally I feel just providing money at a later stage when we may. Not even be here does nt cut it.

I also do blog regularly for our first Gra daughter and mention all we buy her and send so one day she will know even if the presents are not given.

you will only be causing more heartache for yourself by continuing to buy and send gifts to gs and antagonise your son be the better person and respect your sons wishes ...why not open a savings account for your gs for when he is older...

Thank you dollie. I'm just so grateful that we had such a lovely Christmas with family and friends. It is still very difficult but we are doing our best to get on with our lives. We have a lot to be thankful for and have to make the most of what we still have.

We will continue to send our gs birthday and Christmas cards and will never be deterred.

We have come a long way in the last 8 months or so; I know we still have a long way to go. I just hope for us all, that 2014 brings some joy and peace into our lives.

i know how much your hurting smileless by your s treatment ....as i said previously it seems the more effort you make to build bridges the more rejection you get...you have to get on with your life now and let your son and family get on with theirs..they know where you are if ever they need you..

Dear Celebgran you advised me to do the right thing and you were right to do so. Those of us that can do the right thing should, and those who can't should be pitied.

I can tell you what we did to deserve this, we could see the way things were going and between ourselves (hubby and I) we talked about what we could do if we were prevented from seeing our gs. One of the possibilities was to go to court. During an altercation with our d.i.l. when she told my hubby that we wouldn't be allowed to see our gs, he unfortunately said to her that 'there are other ways' she responded by saying 'well take us to court then'.

We saw our s that evening who was furious that we could even consider court. I pointed out that it was his wife who mentioned court, that they must have spoken about it between themselves as we had done and that desperate people do desperate things. That was the 1st of 3 occasions that he promised he would never deprive us of our gs.

So, that was what we did; like Orwell's 1984 we are being punished for our thoughts and not our deeds. As I have pointed out to both of my sons this is now a mute point. How can we be punished for thinking about what we MIGHT do if we were prevented from seeing our gs when that is precisely what has happened. And no, we haven't gone through the courts. I wrote to our s and told him we would not seek contact with our gs if it was against his parents wishes as we did not believe that to do so would be in his best interests. Clearly no browny points for doing the 'right thing' only cruel punishment for thinking about doing what is in their eyes the 'wrong thing'.

Thank you for the just can't get enough of it at the moment. Well it's still Christmas, sort of.

You're so right Yogagirl it is a terribly waste of love. To be honest, his note disturbs me, not because of the nasty things he has written but because of the way it is written. He is intelligent and articulate and the note is not well phrased. I feel that this is all getting too much for him and all he can do is back him self even further in to his corner.

Hubby has just told me about a cartoon he once remembers seeing. A man on a small island is throwing mud (part of his tiny island) at his enemy. The caption read 'mud thrown is ground lost'. The more mud he throws, the more ground our s loses.

We never do know what is around the corner as you say. I'm with you let's all get fat together.

Thank you ladies for your continued love and support.

Oh Smileless I'm so sorry you not only got the unopened prezzies back, but also the nasty letter from your S! Words fail me and as you say, silence would be preferable to a nasty letter from my S, I still haven't heard from him and he will have returned back to London by now, so presents just left sitting under tree! Why our children are being so hateful towards us for no reason is so sad and such a waste of love. I wonder when they will finally wake up and realize how cruel they have been to their parents that love them and their off-spring with all their hearts.
Hi Celebgran I too looked at the happy family I joined for Christmas dinner and thought, 'that used to be how my family were' but of course I was with my ND. I've put on a few pounds already too but it is Christmas so allowed. I am having a Christmas buffet tomorrow, so was out shopping today, feel bit tired now, think I need some hot soup to keep me going tonight, still wrapping presents
A friend of mine phoned me Christmas eve to tell me her husband of 20yrs has told her he doesn't love her any more and is moving out, she's in bits! I always said what a lovely couple they are, so loving to each other, we have been on holiday a couple of times together and they were always so happy and loved up. You never know what's round the corner do you
so we can all be fat together

Oh smileless that is absolutely awful I a so very sorry and I went and advised you to do it.

I realise it must be private but mind boggles as to what you have in your sons eyes done to deserve this! Well done for going out and enjoying.

I am sure no mum and you sound so caring could deserve this.
lots of it so that you had to put up with this what what is wrong with people??

Also sorry yogagirl no response as yet. Keep strong!

Is damn hard whatever we do I blue toothed last photo my daughter texted my son of our darling grandaughter first one we knew she was just over a year got it as my wallpaper not sure if it will upset me too much.
for you both x

Hello ladies. So sorry dollie and Goose that you spent Christmas day on your own and really pleased that Yogagirl and Celebgran had a lovely day . We had a fantastic time against all the odds because on Christmas Eve, once it was dark our gs's pressie was shoved through our letter box with this note from our s

"Your present and card to ..... are not welcome and therefore I return them. I am not interested in the intended gesture. You are not part of mine or his life and you are to stay away. I have not reacted to your many acts and attempts to provoke a reaction but believe me when I say that I will if you provoke me again. You and your friends are to back off and leave my family alone. I will not say it again. You have chosen to behave as you have, so now you must reside with the consequences"

Words cannot express my fury . Delivered in the dark, not merely content to return the unopened gift and card (I know he knew what the book was) but went out of his way to be as nasty as possible to try and ruin our Christmas .

Luckily we were going to friends for the evening and still had a good time. For those who know my story even though my s lives a 2 minute walk down the road, I haven't spoken to him since 30th September 2012. My policy has been say nothing, do nothing. Well on Christmas day morning I reviewed that policy and delivered my signed response in broad day light. This is what I put.

"We are ......' grandparents and will always be a part of his life. We have no intentions of 'staying away' and will continue to send him birthday and Christmas cards. What you do with them is up to you. As for your note, it could be regarded as a threat. There's no need to threaten me with a reaction ....., come down and say to my face what you have been saying about me behind my back. I look forward to seeing you, I really do. Mum

You would think, having known me all of his life that he would know it would be safer to wave a red rag to a bull than seek to threaten and/or intimidate me. Has he been down? No Is he likely to come down? No but how I wish he would, although for his own sake he really is better off staying away.

I'm sorry you didn't hear from your s Yogagirl but it would have been a lot worse if you'd received the kind message we did. We really did have a lovely two days, far better no doubt than the two days he's just had.

What an incredibly stupid thing to do. To issue a challenge when you lack the means and the courage to see it through.

I wonder what 2014 will bring.

Morning all seems struggle now! Went our friends boxing day and really envied the mum and daughter there, why do we have go through so much pain?

We both felt bit low was fun few games but we were glad get home.

Very windy here greenhouse blown over again shed door blew open nothing too major.

May hit the sales later.

How you yogagirl and smiless ? Glad you had lovley Xmas day yogagirl.

My brother rang and wants us go for lunch Sunday thats one with volatile
Partner who took huff when could not go few weeks ago due to illness !
Happy peaceful day to you all
Afraid waistline expanding way too much choc etc! Will have wait til double cream and other goodies gone before cutbacks!

Hello Girls
Writing this watching Michael Buble's Christmas, its lovely. Sorry to hear you spent Christmas day on your own dollie and Goose, no one should be on their own Christmas day, especially as you both have children, but then that's why we are all on here! It could have been me on my own too, but for my ND's in-laws inviting me for Christmas dinner, and I had a really lovely day, lovely dinner cooked by the man of the house, they had their two D and GS there too, so lovely big family Christmas, they all gave me a nice present each, which I wasn't expecting.
I popped into my neighbour before I went, she always spends Christmas on her own, she has a S and two GC that live a distance away, so they don't come down, its actually not that far, so you'd think they'd make the effort. I popped in again today for coffee and cake; 3 hours, 3 sherry's, chocs, crackers and photos later.....lol
Haven't heard from my S, I keep checking my emails, but nothing. So like you Goose my lovely family (D,GD,GS+S) are just round the corner, enjoying Christmas, and obviously not a thought for their mum I'm so glad to have my little dog by my side, she sleeps on my bed at night too, and is so pleased to see me when I wake, gives me a big kiss and cuddle every day, really makes me feel better and loved.
So pleased to hear you had a good Christmas day Celebgran you deserved it. Take it you're having a good Christmas Smileless by your absence, very happy for you, I'll wait for your news update [happy] and well done taking the presents to your GS. I can't look back on the posts before Celebgrans at 5pm 24th, as I'm afraid I'll loose this post if I click to prev. page. So enjoy the rest of your Christmas girls [tchwine]

Oh goose so sorry girls did not contact yum

We did have amazing day with our son so feel blessed His partner is lovely am getting very fond of her, she is so loving and appreciative it really helps fill the gap left by my estranged daughter never thought I would say that.

Her sons we soooo good and gobbled up all I put on their plates had conferred with my first they enjoyed my home made rosaries, turkey chipolatas and sausage and bacon with raw carrot no gravy or green. Veg but was pleased as they not had rosaries before normally its chips !

Day went so quickly we played monopoly after lunch they loved it! Joan. Yn elderly friend. Neibor came too and so enjoyed lunch and game.

Hope you were ok as can be yogagirl and smileless my daughter. Ever far from. My thoughts but it was ok really enjoyed day!
Party at my best friends daughter godmother tonight !

Happy new year all hope will be better for us all x x

Hi Nanban It's a good exercise to concentrate on others worse off than myself and I know there's thousands out there who have nothing in life and make do with that, whilst I'm being so self piteous and indulgent, in my warm, cosy house but the sorrow will only be for one day, just today, on my own so desperately wanting to be with my family who mean the world to me. Tomorrow I will be back to helping others where and whenever I can. I hope your friend's fire continues to burn bright and the warmth spreads throughout their new house, turning it into a warm home

Magic (my dog) isn't sure what felicitation means but she figures it's something to do with food, so sends hers back (with a big lump bitten out of it

Hello Goose! I don't think we've met and if we have I apologize and blame the Head Injury!

I have a friend who is celebrating the occasion with son, new wife in new home in a house that is freezing with just the one bathroom. At 12.45 AM she emailed to say she hadn't spotted any preparations towards today, and they were still up because by the fire was the warmest spot. Suddenly being here, at home, sans anyone else bar husband, is a very attractive proposition.

My dog sends your dogs felicitations.

Daughter's and grandchildren all together celebrating together elsewhere, so it's bloody ho! ho! ho! on my own again…. Well, not really on my own - the dogs's here too

Love peace back smileless and Dollie and yogagirl ,

Did not have good night but can't wait see my son, we had lovely evening out with our good friends maybe too many [drinks] ha ha merry Xmas stay strong x x x

MERRY CHRISTMAS
Love and peace to you all, hope you have some happiness today
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

like me you might be alone at christmas but christmas is what you make of it...its just one day and we are strong and we will get through the day!! sending hugs to you all and you are in my thoughts and prayers... xx

Hear hear smileless have good one all of us especially yogagirl hugs and merry Xmas from cold wet windy frinton on sea and well done again for present delivery our turn after Xmas! X x x