cut out of thier lives 2

Morning otw having being where you ladies on this tread have been been I agree with with your sentiment. But it's so so hard but I did manage to do it and all turned out well in the end but it was a long hard road. And as i'v said in one of my posts I couldn't control the events but I might have been able to controlled my reaction. To all of you grannetters going through the same thing I send you my best wishes

Just seen your mes. Otw we must have been writing at the same time, so Thank you for coming back on here and giving us your kind words xx

Ps: He bought little Laila the snake and she was just 2 and a half years old!!

Morning Girls
Thanks for the link Katyk and glass2 I'll try it later.
Hannoona you are right, someone said to me its like you are speaking English and they are speaking Spanish, you'll never get through to them or understand them, or they you.
Dear Smileless you got through your son's Birthday bravely, well done. Fate wasn't very kind to you, it should have been the rotten S + d.i.l that went to Aus, not the nice one, hope they come home soon for you. Your right about it would have happened sooner or later, others have said the same to me. They did it once b4, the day I came back from a cruise, they insisted I come over to there's, I said I'd come the next day but they kept on till I went over, he must have wound my D up, they had been to the pub and drunk lots, then finished a bottle whilst I was there, my D then went for me and basically said her baby blues where my fault! I stayed away for a whole month, then txt my D to make up, she said she hadn't wanted to fall-out in the first place, so down to nasty s.i.l, my first insight of things to come, this next time he has made sure there would be no making up. Things always seem to happen when I or my ND go on holiday, so I think he is jealous when we go, as they don't get holidays, cos he spends his money on drugs. Just heard they have bought a Tarantula spider to go with their other weird pets!! My little Laila was bought a snake for her Xmas present last year!! So you can see what I'm dealing with.

Morning ladies,
It is an ungodly hour of Sunday morning but all of my thoughts are with you . Now as you know, I have been where you are and now after one phonecall I made ( with a prefix 141 so that she didn't know it was me calling ) I have her and my beloved GD back in my life. I needed to hear her voice. I cannot deny that it is like restoring peace after war in my head but ladies the truth is , for most of my life nothing has changed other than the paths and patterns of thoughts . My DD texts and chats as if nothing had changed and whilst I fear that it will all happen again ,I get on with my own life with a real understanding of the words 'strength of mind ' . I realise now that I should have developed a much greater strength of mind . I cannot tell her that I was nearly broken by her actions, instead I have said that she must never do it again but....

I know it's virtually impossible but it was the greatest victory when on those dark days , one can rationalise that being made a victim by the actions of your own child can only happen if you comply ; if you allow your thoughts to turn in on yourself , to question that which you know to be true - that you didn't make this situation instead it is an act designed to hurt you but ladies we have to fight being hurt . We have to behave as we did when they were small , wait for their tantrums to stop and most important of all, know in our hearts that whilst we still love them we justifiably hate their behaviour!
Dear Yogagirl , Celebgran and friends , I know that the words of wisdom from fellow sufferers made all the difference on the darkest days . I am so glad that you are smiling and do continue to build up your other relationships in order to help those children who have cut us out of their lives realise that we are still their living, loving parents and not their victims . I wish each and every one of you and peace and grace .
That should keep you busy!x

Ladies, hindsight is a wonderful thing and I suspect that nothing you did would have been the right thing to do. Its the downside of having to play mental chess with those who are behind these situations. Xxx

It's so good to know that you've managed to laugh twice in the last 24 hours Yogagirl; laughter is good for the soul. I can't believe how well I've coped so far today. No tears or feeling sick. Poor hubby didn't sleep well last night I felt guilty when he asked me if I'd slept OK and I said that I had. I was so distraught exactly a year ago when I realised our S. had blocked our land line 'phone maybe I'm just relieved that it's this time this year and that so far I've managed to get through it. A year ago I didn't think I'd be able to go on.

It's our nice d.i.l.'s bday on Monday so we sent her flowers to Aus. to be delivered today. She posted a lovely thank you on face book together with a photo. It may be a double wammy to our nasty S.; nothing from his parents on his bday and knowing the trouble we went to for our nice d.i.l.

Don't beat yourself up over forgetting your D's ann. Yogagirl. Even if you had gone round with flowers and a card, every thing you have shared about your awful s.i.l. suggests to me that this would have happened sooner or later. How could any one be so cruel over such a tiny over sight?

I think you were really brave going to court to try and get contact. We took legal advice but I simply couldn't stand the thought of being in a court room and listening to my s's. filthy lies. It's the only time in my life I have ever been a coward. The other reasons we didn't pursue it were we were told even if we were successful, if they disobeyed the court we would have to go back and if they didn't do that, but said contact with us was having a detrimental effect on our g.s. the decision could be reversed.

Having heard of success stories myself, I questioned whether we had done the right thing. You having the courage to share your terrible experience made me realise we had. It really upset me to read your account of leaving court and what you were subjected too; and I was also extremely . You were brave Yogagirl don't you forget that, and hopefully one day your g.c. will seek you out and you will be able to show them how hard you fought.

Thanks for sending the for my hubby's bday. I'll tell him when he gets in. Just the rest of the day to get through now' I'll be having a glass of later, then to bed. Tomorrows another day and as today's gone better that I dared to hope, maybe tomorrow will be OK too.

Oh thank you Glass

katy here is a link
Bel Mooney

I know some folks on here are not too struck on the Daily Mail but in Bel
Mooney's agony page in today's edition, there is a letter from a lady who is being denied contact with her grandchildren. Her words (and Bel's reply) are very wise and true and may be of some solace to people who are suffering similarly. I'm not good at links, but if anyone wants to read it, it should be be on the Mail Online. Personally, Yogagirl, I would take things some people put on Facebook with a pinch of salt.

Just got txt from my ND saying that Jenni(D) put on her bus.FB page that she had been told ' she and Jason are a perfect couple', I went from little hope to no hope with that, untill I asked my ND who had said this, she replied ^"no idea, might have been a customer, no one that knows them would say it!^" I laughed! second time in 24hrs (I've laughed), whats happening to me, am I getting my mind back?

Morning Girls
Of course I understand Celebgran how could I not, it is only us on here that do. I cant wait for my ND to have her first baby, I have to stop myself saying so, and I pray every night it will be soon, to try and ease this pain in my heart and soul and for my ND too. But my ND having a baby will not stop me longing for my Laila and Jack, it will probably highten my feelings of loosing them. I'm now beating myself up for going to court, I read lots of books on success stories, should have found this forum first and maybe I wouldn't have gone down that road. 10 days after I was told to f***-off by my s.i.l was their first anniversay, with all the truama, I had totally forgotten! even though I had a lovely card for them in the cupboard, if I'd remembered I wouldn't have sent the first email to my D, saying how much I love and miss them and asking for a meeting so I could apologize to my s.i.l if I had upset him, but ending by saying 'loosing my GC is not an option' I would instead have gone round with the card and some flowers, then perphaps this situation would have stopped there. Two days before, was my D birthday, we had arranged to go out for lunch with my other ND (her big sister), so I sent my D (first communication) a txt saying " Happy Birthday, would you like to go out for your Birthday lunch and we can build a bridge over troubled waters" no reply. So now I keep thinking ' if only I had remembered it was their ann. and gone round with flowers and card

Yogagirl I won't go over on Xmas day our son and family coming if we do go it will be before then.

Still not sure. I love seeing my little great niece and because she is my twin brothers granddaughter feel quite close to her.

It is strain though can you understand that yogagirl? Somehow I just wish with all my heart was my own little granddaughters and wonder what I have done so wrong to deserve this.

Smileless I change my mind more or less daily so hard to know if we ignore our daughter for first Xmas after 4 of doing so much will she care or Is it playing into their hands!

Smileless! You actually made me laugh with that first paragraph, and that doesn't happen very much any more. I wonder if I should try that one, I imagine I'd get more than a "F***-off" from my s.i.l though
There's that date again-16th for your hubbies b/day. My friends wedding ann. too!
We parents obviously have more feelings for our off-spring than they for us, but then I really loved my mum and would never have done anything to hurt her, and my biggest joy was seeing her and my dad with my children and the love between them all. I would really like to look inside my D head and see what she is really thinking. I think it will only be when they are grndparents, that they will realize the enormity of our pain

I had a brilliant idea last night - momentarily. I suggested to my hubby that we could walk down the road to our S's. house on Sat. as it is his 29th bday, knock, if he answers throw our arms around him, give him a big kiss and do the same to our d.i.l. It was a tongue in cheek idea of course; my hubby said he didn't fancy being told to f...off by his own S.! I had to laugh when I imagined the look on their faces; not that I really have any intentions of ever being that near to my d.i.l. again.

My m.i.l. asked my hubby if he had remembered it was our S's. bday on Sat.! Why do people come out with such bloody stupid questions. As he told her, we spent 27 years bringing him up (before all this started) so we're hardly likely to forget, although I wish I could forget at least until Sunday morning.

Like you Yogagirl I have been adamant not to send a card but the nearer it gets the more difficult it gets. My hubby will be 60 on the 16th and I don't suppose he'll get a card, neither of us have had a bday. card since all this started so I don't expect he will. Hope he realises this and wont be too upset. What am I saying, of course he'll be upset like he was on his last bday. and father's day: as I was on my bday. and mother's day.

Will our S. be upset on Sat. that he hasn't had a card from his parents? will he notice? will he even care? To feel pain, notice and care he would have to have some residue of feeling for us and how can he have, he's taken our only g.c. away after he promised he wouldn't ever stop us from seeing him. The nearest we got to an explanation for doing so was 'things change'. What kind of explanation is that for such cruelty? Well yes son, things do change, for the first time in your life your parents will have 'forgotten' your bday. I wonder how that will feel and I wonder why I waste my time thinking about him when he probably doesn't give us second thought.

Morning Girls,
Hello Celebgran hope you enjoyed your visit to your bros GD, its bitter sweet though isn't it. I have been adamant that I wont send anything, but keep cards for GC here and put money in bank acc. for them, but I must say, with you saying you will go with present on Xmas day for them, sounds very appealing, but I don't think I will, I'm still hoping silence will work, and I'm sure it would be a hostile reception from s.i.l
Sad today turning the calendar to November, as it was the 16th when this alienation began, strangely its the date I married her dad, may moons ago, I'm sure she dosen't know this. Also my D Birthday on the 23rd she'll be 24, hoping she'll miss the cards and presents from me and her sister. 1 year, I can't believe it, I can't believe my D would do this to me and her sister, we have always been so close, even with my D hell raising days to cope with! I can't believe she dosen't miss us

Yogagirl it was a very good reply to your ex sis I. Law.

I have sent so many letters to our daughter and there is probably nothing I would not do to run and heal rift but she does not want us in her life and ours I law is adamant ie threatening police.

A dear friend suggested we still take small gift over at Xmas as why shod we be prevented from showing our love for grandchildren even if we only seen one!

I must say I will be sad if I don't.

Hope you keeping spirits up yogagirl we going see my brothers little granddaughter and her mum this afternoon lovely

Morning Girls
Thanks for your reply Smileless. It was very interesting reading.

Hey there Yogagirl what a powerful email; I hope it gives some pause for thought. Although it is a long time away in the distant future, one day your g.chldrn. will be old enough and probably curious enough to meet their wonderful grandmother.

One of my dearest friends has a brother 12 years older. When she was still quite young he argued with their mother and she and her mother never heard from him again. One day, her mother got a 'phone call from the 21 year old g.son she never knew existed. He said he had always wanted to meet her and finally managed to track her down.

We all hope that one day our children will come to their senses and see the error of their ways. But even if they don't there is still hope. I don't believe I will ever have a relationship with my S. again but I do believe that one day I will know my g.son. I am constructing a memory box for him so that if that day comes, he will know that there wasn't a day went by when I didn't think about him.

At the very least I have arranged to leave the memory box to him in my will so he will know there was another grandmother who loved him even though we never met.

Hopefully your awful s.i.l. wont be able to influence them as they grow up the way he has influenced your D. My d.i.l. is a sociopath - no idea how the deal with her with her either. Keep smiling

Below is my reply to my prev. sister.i.l;
Tue, Oct 29, 2013 01:15 PDT

Thanks for email Gill
I tried this right at the beginning,to Jason and his mum and dad, they didn't wont to know then, so they most definately will not now. They have all got immense pleasure out of torturing me this whole year! The pain of loosing your child and then ontop, your Grndchldrn, is indescribable, only a mother seperated from her child would know this pain..Jenni knows this pain,as this all began with Jason doing the same to her, he was immensely cruel to her, and when I helped Jenni he didn't like it, as this ment I was not 100% behind him. He had asked,at this time, for me to put my name to his, to have Jenni sectioned in the mental home he had the police take her to, I refused. He gave this same no.to Glenn to call, when they thought I was about to kill myself!
When Jason threw his fist at me and told me to F**k-off, I did not reply to him, same when he stuck his middle finger up at me in the street, and same when he said to me after the court hearing "they (GC) will not even be at your funeral!", I did not respond. Not only did his mum and dad not help, but I was plagued with hate mail from them both. As for your dad, I asked him to help by talking to Jason, and he just betrayed 36yrs of frienship. Remember Jason is a Narsissist, which goes hand-in-hand with pathological lying, how one deals with a person like this is beyond me.
I would do anything to get Jenni, Laila and Jack back, but I have no illusions that this will happen with Jason in the picture, You don't know Jason as I do.
Thanks anyway Gill
xx

Dear Yogagirl I am so sorry that the good news about your son has been tarnished by your previous s.i.l.'s suggestion that you send an open letter of apology to your D., her husband and his family.

How many hours have we all spent going over conversations and meetings that we had with these cruel parents of our g.c,. trying to work out what we did or said that was so wrong. Surely we must have done something catastrophically bad to be treated in this way; well if I have, why don't I remember what I did? and why is the only defense my S. and d.i.l. can come up with to justify what they have done be depriving us of our only g.c. a tissue of lies?

You don't have to apologize Yogagirl none of us have to do anything that we don't want to do or feel uncomfortable doing. I had a row with my other S. because he got annoyed with me when I told him I wouldn't apologize. He couldn't believe it when I told him I had nothing to apologize for. I guess unless you are unfortunate to be in the position all of us are in, it is for some people, impossible to believe that innocent parents and g. parents can be treated so cruelly.

Have you told your previous s.i.l. what you think of her suggestion? If not may be you should; does she know what you have had to put up with and continue putting up with? If she doesn't, maybe she should be told.

It has taken me a while to read through all of the postings as I only joined this forum a few days ago. You have shown such courage and fortitude Yogagirl don't let this get you down (easier said than done - I know). for you or maybe would be better! Make it a large one.

Oh dear yogagirl dont let it get to you. People can be so cruel and there really is no need.

Don't let it spoil joy of your son'sReunion.

My niece is still shunning me and perhaps is should have chatted online to her ex but is hardly innocent having deleted me from f book and hotly denied it, sometimes I just wish people would talk rather than all this online stuff. Even though I am addicted myself!
Is double whammy for us as we got to love my 3 great nieces. Very hard when you try do your best and it is not appreciated.

I would ignore it if you can yogagirl please dont upset yourself over it.

So upset! Just got an email from my previous sister.i.l advising me to send an 'open apology' to my D,s.i.l,his mother and dad and my previous f.i.l !!!
My p.f.i.l I asked to help me by talking to my s.i.l, but he was 'taken into the dark side' and never communicated with me again, s.i.l;s mum and dad joined him (s.i.l) in his hate campaign against me and sent me hate mail, the rest you all know. So why in Hell have I got to apologize? Only I have seen his face when he flung his fist at my and told me to "F**k-off" and in the car park after the court case when he said to me "they (GC) wont even be at your funeral!" and when he stuck his middle finger up at me, when I saw him recently with my beloved GC.
Just got interrupted by a ph call from my ND, pointing out that she is saying about a letter because; when I was in Turkey I saw a Tarot card reader, and she said I would be disappointed at the court hearing and that I should send s.i.l a letter!
I did, in the very beginning of all this, say I would apologize to s.i.l if I'd said or done anything to upset him and would change myself if anything offended him about me, but no response. Bottom line is I didn't do or say anything wrong at all, it was he that started it all with a big fight with my D, and of course I helped her because she had come back to stay with me. I was very careful what I said to him, but when I said on the ph (in a quiet, gentle voice)" Jenni will get custody of Laila (not his) therefore Jack and its the Mother and C that stay in the home, its the man that leaves" this sentence got them back together and me where I am today (He kicked my D out of the house and wouldn't let her see her babies, even though the eldest not his).

Thank you everyone for your good wishes and so pleased for you Otw once more, hope it is everlasting this time.

I do have my beloved Son back, but not my beloved D and GC, all lost to my nasty, cruel s.i.l and his equally cruel and nasty mother. After my Son left yesterday my previous sister.i.l drilled it into me to "change the way I am...forgive...move on...." really upset me to almost tears (never managed that yet), second time she's done this, she is a life coach by profession, so really giving some 'welly' into the situation, but (big but) she is not a Mother or Grandmother so really does not understand. So don't know if anyone got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but I'm not reunited with my D and GC and I can't see that happening

I am so pleased for you yoga and you too otw and a big {{{hug}}} for anyone else who find themselves in this dreadful situation