Should we censor historical language?

Oh yes, in a certain establishment we used to play cr*p bingo. We had grids made up by a different person before a faculty meeting, and on each card was a list of cliches which we might or might not hear uttered. Examples were:

Higher order skills
BYOT
Data mining
Push the envelope
Diversity (X2) to count
Empowerment
Impact
Stakeholder

And so on. The winner - the first to complete a card, got to compile the next cards and we all chipped in a quid for a bottle to drown our sorrows.

I hope we're coming out the other side of the nonsense, being generally aware and able to talk about black coffee and black sheep without it being assumed there is racist intent.

In probation, an over-zealous head office bod decided to issue a 'house-style guide to correct language, giving examples of terms to be used in court reports, saying 'we recognise the level of awareness of probation officers, but here is an educative opportunity for the judiciary!' It rambled on and on and became the butt of in-house jokes, including spoof union and chief officer memos. It quietly disappeared, but staff would resurrect it whenever management introduced their latest buzz-words like 'helicopter view' 'running the flag up the pole' 'thinking outside the box' and 'blue sky thinking.'

They must cringe with embarrassment now, but I bet there are more buzz-words being used.

nightowl - yes, they were strange times. You're spot on though, it was out of such nonsense that attitudes to gender/sexuality/race etc began to change.
If only the current debates about women hating on twitter, child sexual abuse etc will lead to progress in those areas

nightowl - yes, they were strange times. You're spot on though, it was out of such nonsense that attitudes to gender/sexuality/race etc began to change.
If only the current debates about women hating on twitter, child sexual abuse etc will lead to progress in those areas

In Nottingham susie they sang 'baa baa fluffy sheep'. It is over twenty years ago, but some things are hard to forget.

I also remember that when I worked in Sheffield before that, our deputy area manager sent out a memo to every member of staff (pre email) saying that as a white person she wanted to acknowledge her responsibility for the history of racism in Britain, and wanted all the other white members of staff to join her in acknowledging our inherent racist attitudes. She had just been on a race awareness course. Strange times. But it was out of such nonsense that attitudes in general began to change and the significance of language began to be taken seriously.

Until recently I was an Equality and Diversity Professional, and had a hole in my office wall from banging my head on it in frustration, so many people got hung up on language would sneer at E & D for being 'PC' and trot out all the old urban myths as an excuse for saying that E & D was stupid

I have yet to meet a black person offended by black coffee, black boards, or black sheep, a Muslim offended by christmas, or epiletic offended by brainstorming!
If, indeed some idiot thought they were helping equality by saying such stupid things , they should be put behind bars for damaging the credibilty of equality legislation

I was a member of EYTARN for some years , and we never found anyone who had actually sang baa baa green sheep - possibly in Nottingham they had no idea what sheep were?

I had cause to take an elected member to a standards hearing due to her racist and vile attitudes, and from somewhere , out of my mouth popped the words ' we should all live our lives according to thumper's mother - if you havent got anything nice to say, then don't say nothing at all...'

Regrtably I cannot adhere myself to her high standards !

Penis!

Did she mean penis, private eye or a particularly stupid man?

like that.
Had trouble with an interpreter today, she turned to us and asked "what is the English for a dick?"

That reminds me of when I was newly wed, aged 22, and went to the butchers to order a large chicken for Christmas. I could cook, but I'd learned it in Austria as an au pair girl, so i was not familiar with the more specialised words in English cooking.

Anyway, he asked me if I wanted a capon. "What's that?" I asked him.
"A castrated cock" he said.
I was a bit taken aback, but I said "Fine - he didn't have a lot to live for, after all"

That butcher was always friendly to me after that.

Maniac I remember reading "My Friend Flicka" when I was about 10 and asking my Dad what "gelding" was. He ummed and aahed then said "Ask your Mum". So I knew it was something best not mentioned and looked it up in the dictionary.

Back to the N word: it comes from the Latin neger meaning black, if I remember rightly. It had been used in an offensive way for so long, that we are dead right in banning its use nowadays. But old texts should never be censored and changed. Perhaps a footnote could be added, if the fact it is in a historical context, or necessary for the story, is not clear.

What I find offensive is the totally unconscious racial manipulation in many American dramas. When the African American character needs a love interest, they almost always pick someone from the same race. It never seems to occur to them that they needn't do this. In fact mixing the races in drama could help improve real life race relations in the long run. But alas, race is clearly a criterion in casting.

From what I've read, race/colour is not a consideration in Britain, unless for some reason it has to be. They just call for auditions and pick the best person, regardless.

Both meanings?

The word 'ejaculated' occurs in 'Anne of Green Gables' books. Explain that to a 10 yr-old girl !

Yes, galen, that image of a PILE of pancakes was my idea of heaven. My mum, poor soul, could hardly make them fast enough for five of us re-joining the 'queue' for the next one. It seems she never thought of making piles and keeping them hot in the oven. Hey ho.

The Pakistanis who ran the Paki shop near where I used to live called it The Paki Shop. It was like those old-fashioned corner shops only more so because the spices came in large packets with their Urdu names still on them. They also sold bits for cars.

Oh of course!

An insult to Pakistani people, Petallus

What's p**i?

Enid Blyton was a good story writer and children will find her whether they are put in front of them or not. DGD, aged 6, has discovered the Secret Seven and loves them.

I do think with books for younger children should have individual words changed where they are now deeply deeply offensive, like n****r. We would not want them reading books saying f**k or c**t p**i and the n****r word is as, if not more, offensive and there is always the danger that they would use the words in conversation and get themselves unknowingly deeply into trouble.

Older children and adults are capable of understanding that they represent the language and attitudes of a previous age that not now current. Bear in mind we use words and have attitudes now that will deeply shock people of 2113, and they are probably not the ones we would think of.

I wanted the pancakes!

I loved it too. When the tiger went round and round the tree and turned into ghee it was such a satisfying end to him!

We had that story at home. I loved it and read it over and over again. I wanted to be Little Black Sambo.

Sorry ann! Actually I have maligned Nottingham City Council. Although I worked in the city my employer was in fact Nottinghamshire County Council until local government reorganisation in the late 1990s. Sadly, by then the council run nurseries were being transformed into family centres and I'm not sure you would have recognised anything that was going on there in the end. Some of it was good but there seemed to be a loss of the good nursery care that the old council run nurseries had provided.

Oh dear nightowl how very old you have made me feel. I worked in Nottingham City nurseries but it was in the mid 50s to the mid 60s and Little Black Sambo was being read at that time.

Yes bags there were some astronomically silly people about. Fortunately there were lots of sensible ones about as well and they ensured that the real issue of inappropriate language was properly considered and things did change for the better.