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(38 Posts)
felice Wed 28-Aug-13 17:26:01

i live in Brussels and have become used to 'BRUSSELS' being blamed for everything which goes wrong in the little Island of the coast of the rest of Europe, even though it was the sub-prime lending in the US which caused your recession. Why does the British government think it has the right to interfere in other countries conflicts. Ok it is awful but did they interfere in Rwanda, the Congo, as there are still bombs being picked up by school children in Northern Ireland should they just get the Uk sorted before they get into another Iraq or Afganistan, i have Military family and we do not want to lose any more sons and daughters.

BerylBee Fri 30-Aug-13 15:04:43

Good post, BAnanas.

Mishap Fri 30-Aug-13 14:58:59

Actually I have just discovered that he abstained - as good as, as far as i am concerned and there were good reasons for this of which I have been made aware.

Mishap Fri 30-Aug-13 14:51:56

Jesse Norman (conservative for Sth Herefordshire) also voted against. He has been widely tipped for a cabinet post and standing by his principles on this issue will be at great personal cost.

I have never voted conservative in my life, but this guy is admirable in his integrity and hard work for local causes.

Mishap Fri 30-Aug-13 13:26:49

I do so agree with all your post BAnanas.

BAnanas Fri 30-Aug-13 12:53:06

I agree "stay out" I can't help thinking Cameron, before he lost the vote, wanted to posture on the world stage like Blair, I think he takes the "heir to Blair" title quite seriously. Of course it's horrific what's happening there, I can't help thinking it would be better to help the countries who are having to deal with the mass exodus of Syrian refugees rather than launch missile strikes on perceived Assad targets and possibly kill more innocent civilians. I would echo an interview with the man from the Daily Mirror this morning on the BBC when he said when America says "jump" we say how high?" We are not an imperial power anymore neither are we the strongest country in Europe, Germany appears to adopt a much more cautious approach than we do. In any case our armed forces are much depleted and any rockets we would fire off would be minimal in respect of America's fire power.

A worrying outcome of any potential western involvement could be that we could be entering a proxy war with Russia and China, not to mention there doesn't seem to be any clear strategy on who we would be arming. I think there should be more emphasis on Arab states working together to seek a solution to this, or am I being naive? At least lets wait until the UN inspectors have concluded their findings.

bluebell Fri 30-Aug-13 11:51:10

But what were Justine Greening( international development secretary) and Mark Simmonds(foreign office minister upto?) They claimed they didn't hear the division bell????

bluebell Fri 30-Aug-13 11:44:08

Interesting list - names who will NOT feature in any cabinet reshuffle!

Here is a list of the 39 MPs from the coalition parties who voted against it:

David Amess (Southend West)

Richard Bacon (Norfolk South)

Steven Baker (Wycombe)

John Baron (Basildon and Billericay)

Andrew Bingham (High Peak)

Crispin Blunt (Reigate)

Fiona Bruce (Congleton)

Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford)

David Davies (Monmouth)

Philip Davies (Shipley)

David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden)

Nick de Bois (Enfield North)

Richard Drax (Dorset South)

Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey)

Philip Hollobone (Kettering)

Adam Holloway (Gravesham)

Phillip Lee (Bracknell)

Julian Lewis (New Forest East)

Jason McCartney (Colne Valley)

Stephen McPartland (Stevenage)

Nigel Mills (Amber Valley)

Anne-Marie Morris (Newton Abbot)

Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole)

Sir Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills)

Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle)

Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight)

Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes)

Charles Walker (Broxbourne)

Chris White (Warwick and Leamington)

Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes)
Liberal Democrats

Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley)

Michael Crockart (Edinburgh West)

Andrew George (St Ives)

Julian Huppert (Cambridge)

Dan Rogerson (Cornwall North)

Andrew Stunell (Hazel Grove)

Ian Swales (Redcar)

Sarah Teather (Brent Central)

Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire)

One Tory, Tim Loughton (Worthing East and Shoreham), and one Lib Dem, Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam) voted in both lobbies, a technical abstention.

Mishap Fri 30-Aug-13 11:07:55

Having a parliament with no clear majority has its advantages - it is frustrating for the government not to be able to get basic legislation through easily, but it really comes into its own in a situation like this. The politicians have to listen and the government of the day does not hold all the trump cards.

AlieOxon Fri 30-Aug-13 10:40:56

Also the 'Send in the gunboats' reaction is nearly always to distract the home country from their own problems!

It's just possible that this decision means that politicians are beginning to be a little more careful and sensible? You never know.

Mishap Fri 30-Aug-13 10:39:27

I am against intervention - but those who share this view are not unmoved by the plight of the children and ordinary citizens of Syria who are caught up in this mess. We just don't think that military intervention will improve the situation - it will create more terror and stir up resentments that could backfire on everyone.

Humanitarian aid? - definitely.

AlieOxon Fri 30-Aug-13 10:38:25

No it isn't too long - and I agree.

Violence met with violence just multiplies, and can lead to far greater conflict.

BerylBee Fri 30-Aug-13 10:31:54

I'm another one who is very anti any military intervention.
Quite apart from the moral ambiguities in thinking that one bad thing (chemical attacks) should be met with another bad thing (let's bomb the country), in strictly practical terms, such actions by outsiders never seem to lead to good outcomes.

Sorry - that last sentence is far too long !

felice Fri 30-Aug-13 10:20:42

I am very heartened by all the responses on here, and the fact that many politicians seem to have thought about the matter and not gone all gung-ho, off we go to war. few of them will have family on the front line in battle. The Arab League seem quite toothless at times, and perhaps it is time the Countries who are taking in and trying to care for the many refugees who should be doing more talking and recieving proper aid to care for the many poor souls they have accepted into their countries. Another problem is of course that the people lucky enough to have funds to leave Syria and go to safer countries is that they tend to be the educated citizens, leaving a void in the infastructure of the country. I just pray that a solution can be found soon.

MiceElf Fri 30-Aug-13 10:07:43

'Getting involved in an argument that is none of your business is like going down the street and grabbing a dog by the ears'.

finocchio Fri 30-Aug-13 10:03:45

I would like to see non-arms intervention providing substantial humanitarian support for the many displaced and injured citizens of Syria. Perhaps safe corridors might be possible?

janthea Fri 30-Aug-13 09:58:16

I think Cameron was damned if he did and damned if he didn't Very difficult situation. No one wants to go to war, but how can anyone stand by and see child dying horribly.

I don't know what the solution is. I agree we can't just send troops. We aren't the policemen of the world. The Arab world should be doing something and not just standing by. The UN should be stronger.

Gally Fri 30-Aug-13 09:53:10

I am just a simple Mum and Granny. I don't know a huge amount about the intricacies of politics. I try to put myself in the position of the ordinary inhabitant of Syria, imagine it happening here, in the UK, to my family, to my children and to my neighbours and wonder what I would want to happen. I really don't know, but I would certainly want assistance from somewhere, but whether I would want the help to involve all out war which would endanger our nation even more or whether I would want it through the UN or some other organisation, I don't know. I just know I would want it all to stop, now. It is horrific.

bluebell Fri 30-Aug-13 09:31:37

Maybe because its irrelevant what the inspectors find

AlieOxon Fri 30-Aug-13 09:24:41

I don't understand why they voted before the inspectors made their report?

whenim64 Fri 30-Aug-13 09:23:11

The best strategy would be for the Arab League to lead on peaceful intervention, with the support of the rest of the world. Why don't we hear about progress on that front, when they are clearly holding talks?

sunseeker Fri 30-Aug-13 09:16:43

We should wait until the UN inspectors have made their report and then consider our position in the light of that report. Blair and Co lied to us because they wanted to back Bush in his war, I don't think Cameron is looking for regime change, he just wants to stop the use of chemical weapons by either side. But as I have said, we should wait until the UN inspectors have made their report.

I understand the Arab League have already said there should be some intervention, but whether they are prepared to do that themselves or expect the west to do it I don't know

j08 Thu 29-Aug-13 23:07:31

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".

We should intervene.

whenim64 Thu 29-Aug-13 22:52:42

I heard there was a lot of swearing about the result! About time Cameron et al had their balloons popped.

Galen Thu 29-Aug-13 22:43:16


Ana Thu 29-Aug-13 22:37:43

Good. Watching Newsnight - seems a lot of Tories didn't vote as they'd said they would...