Am I too 'needy', demanding and difficult?

But I'm capable of looking after her children when the parents are busy networking. I'm waiting with baited breath how I'm supposed to get the keys to the flat. My plane gets in at about two . My SIL has a train at three. If the plane is late(very likely) I may have to sit outside the flat waiting until the DGC get home at six as they have keys ! Last time we helped out there was a letter on the table headed WELCOME my heart leapt. Then I realised it was to the family who had borrowed their flat just before we arrived. ....

Rowan, I read you story with some sadness and much empathy. I too have had some stormy times with DD, still going on I have to admit.
Your background sounds sad, but an important part of history.
So sorry for your feelings of anxiety and depression, it must be such a day to day struggle for you. So many of the replies to your post come from very wise and empathetic women that I would personally fail to say anything more which would help you.
I just would like you to know how I feel for you right now, and send you healing thoughts and perhaps a little comfort if that's possible.
Perhaps a bit of space between you for a little time to allow some healing, would be a good thing.
Be kind to yourself and keep posting on here.

I agree with you absent. I find it hard to relate to these family hostilities as well, but they happen all too often, and surely it can't just be a case of upbringing or class or whatever?

Perhaps some grown-up children these days have more of a sense of entitlement than we had, and are encouraged to feel 'deprived' or 'emotionally neglected' by various media outlets and/or counselling?

I do not think you are Penst !
Vis a vie the power thing I think there is too much "Thinking" these days , for hecks sack just get on with it , and stop trying to quantyify everything !!

hmmmm

What is this power thing? Surely once one's children become adults and especially once they become parents the emotional dynamics of the relationship change, based on equality. Of course, grown-up children have the power to prevent us from having anything to do with our grandchildren but why on earth would they exercise it because they are simply a bit peeved? (Obviously, it is different if there is a major family incident of some sort, but those are comparatively rare.) I don't think I upset absentdaughter very often but it does happen. I can't imagine her saying that I can't go to Max's birthday party or let Caitlin stay the night just because I have said something she didn't like. She is far too mature and sensible and we have too much mutual respect for her to behave in such a wantonly stupid way.

I don't think it ever crossed my mother's mind that if she upset me, I would be so small-minded as to prevent her from having anything to do with her only grandchild. And she was right.

It is interesting how our early experiences can impact on our adult life. At what point can we/should we make a choice to be different if we are unhappy with the way we are?
I know I was very fortunate ..I was brought up by loving and caring happy parents within an extended (refugee) family all in one house. I know there were arguments, disagreements and rows but as children we were not party to them so always made to feel secure and safe.
I have a friend who always says that her parents unhappy relationship and her 'difficult' mother is the reason she herself now needs to be handled with kid gloves. I challenge her and say that we all have the choice to behave in certain ways..habits, I accept, are very hard to break but if we believe we cannot control what /how we are /respond to situation what hope is there for ever breaking a pattern? Am I being really unkind to her?

Just as I was going out this morning DD phoned to say she had skidded and had a car crash, thankfully not serious.

Thanks to this thread I did not say 'you've got to be more careful in this weather. Were you driving too fast?'

Then later today adult GS had to break up a dog fight between two staffies belonging to his father (ex SIL) and sustained some minor injuries.

I did rattle on a bit about that one.

JessM I loved your 'cataclysmic utterances'. I seem to get quite a few of those. My favourite recently was I think I might live on a houseboat'.

I kept schtum and it's not been mentioned again.

Ow stansgran Freud still has a lot to answer for.
hmm rowantree quite. umbilical cords spring to mind.
Someone once gave this useful advice. If you want to give someone advice/feedback/suggestions etc ask if they would like it as in "would you like to hear my thoughts on the issue". and then bite your lip if they say know.
as in "Would you like a few suggestions or not" and really mean the "or not" Note to self - this is a good suggestion.

What would you think of to say?! Prefer texts myself tbh, but DD2 does like to phone home most days. Fairly briefly though! (unless I start chuntering on)

To jinglebellrocks: yes, it was amazing how fast it seemed to flare up out of nowhere, almost. But in the last few days she seems to have softened. She sent me a photo of my father holding the book, and she's actually ASKED for our input now in -re-editing it ( again, by text). I am being very careful to find out exactly what she wants help with, and am trying not to assume anything. I don't want to hurt her feelings.
She was always very sensitive all through her childhood and adolescence and would read things into what people said that weren't meant. We had to learn how to talk to her so she wouldn't, but I'm not sure we managed that well. I always try and acknowledge when I have been tactless, but at the same time she needs to realise that life is going to be like that - she'll meet all kinds of people who have no such scruples. Interestingly enough she seems to deal with it well in her professional life - now she is self-employed.
I think there was more going on though: stress of the move that isn't happening, as many have pointed out. That's enough on its own. I'm hoping things will just settle down of their own accord - till the next time!
Jess - I knew someone (an ex-friend!) who claimed she spoke to both her daughters EVERY DAY for an hour or more each. How they had time for lives of their own beats me! She used to tell me, rather smugly I felt, 'Well, we're a close family!' I considered that we were too but neither of my DDs or I would want to talk for over an hour on the phone every day....!

Aka makes a good point about family relationships. We need to allow our children to grow up, and make mistakes, as we did. The balance of power does change, as most of us know from our relationships with our own parents. I found the shift from simply being a daughter, into being part carer, but full time daughter a bit of a challenge. My parents were both very independent, and resisted our attempts to get a cleaner, gardener for example until it became necessary. They taught me a lot about tolerance and love, for which I remain grateful.

Agree with the 2nd part of your post Aka .
My sentiments entirely !

Or so she said.

This thread is great. Very reassuring. I was reading relevant bits out to DH this morning.

Don't worry Stansgran my DD's counselling turned me into a needy mother!

Haha Stansgran I read both those books your daughter has decided you belong too We can all be what anyone wants to see us as cant we - out of context

Isn't it part of the problem that some people think they can speak to their adult children in a way they would never dream of speaking to another adult or a friend?

I don't want my adult children interfering in my life. I don't want unsolicited advice from them. If they want help they ask for it. If I want help ditto.

How I wish this thread had been around about two years ago and then I wouldn't be in the position I am in with DD1. She started a degree course in ,IMO,transatlantic psychobabble . No I haven't said that or even mentioned the course but it has it seems turned me into a narcissistic mother and possibly a toxic parent. She has decided to go what is called Low Contact rather than No Contact.

Things cannot be equal if there is unequal power. Parental power can come from the culture (you should adhere to your parents wishes) or from early training (we wish) or from the fact that they have financial or actual resources (can i borrow you car mum). Grownup kids have power because they are in charge of the grandchildren and also because by this stage parents are more needy of contact with their kids than vice versa.
I do agree that some parents seem surprisingly close (by modern standards) - talking on the phone every day for instance. I'm lucky if I speak to DSs once every 3 weeks.

Good point Tegan.

Is it necessarily "pussy footing" though? As parents we do not enjoy the same equal relationship with our adult children that we have with our friends and contemporaries. It may be fine to express a different opinion, but the problem arises when that opinion is given (or perceived to have) additional weight or authority because of our age/experience/relationship.
We do not necessarily know best (except in matters of child care ( but I am joking) so I think it is important to listen, give an opinion if asked for one but always to bear in mind that if they are inded making a mistake, we learn from these selfsame mistakes and our role is then to be there to support or help out not to even think "I told you so".

Perhaps adult children still subconciously seek approval and praise from their mums and dads and overreact when they are critiscised in a way that they wouldn't if it was someone else giving the advice?

My daughter and I live far apart and only see each other about three times a year, for a week. We really appreciate that time, and I wish we lived nearer to each other. But from having observed friends and reading what happens on here, I think people need more of a break from each other than they realise. When my daughter was still living at home we had quite a volatile relationship, and just occasionally I see flashes that it could reappear. Your daughter will calm down. She is stressed, thought she had done something for you that you would love, and feels hurt, just leave her alone for a bit. Time dulls all wounds.

On the Cut out of their Lives thread, a link was posted to a website of a psychologist who helps people who find themselves in a situation of parental alienation.
He makes the point that a couple of generations ago, children were expected to earn the love and respect of their parents. Now though, parents feel that they have to strive to earn the love and respect of their children.
Surely it should be about mutual respect - as grannyactivist has illustrated, a parent should be able to say things honestly that a child may not want to hear, and the adult child being able to listen and decide for themselves, without the parent going into dictatorial, judgemental mode, or the child going into defiant sulky mode.

"high up" #soddingfire

If "the title was printed too big up so it was partly cut off", should n't they go back to the firm that they paid money to?

Did all this latest really blow up just because you pointed that out *rowantree"?