vanessa feltz

Stand your ground papaoscar and 'man-up*

Aka, Nonu and Lona: I too have a sense of fun , but unkind comments about body shape/size are a form of bullying. Before it was fashionable to have a big bust , I suffered comments such as 'bet she wouldn't hit her nose if she fell over'- usually from men.these sort have remarks have left me with a very negative body image even after all these years.

Atqui, I can understand what you are saying, but on here we don't know what you look like, and therefore we aren't trying to be hurtful to you personally.

So, I don't think you need to take it as a personal, hurtful remark.

I know you didn't say that, you just didn't think it was funny, but it wasn't aimed at you.

And I don't think it was meant to be unkind to anyone.

judthepud the menopause would not have evolved if our ancestors had dropped dead before it happened. It is thought that it evolved to help women successfully rear the last member of their family (because as we know this takes quite a few years) and also help rear grandchildren.
The only other animal to have a menopause that we know if is the Orca and there is research that indicates that the adult sons of older females survive better if their mums are still around!

I think the issue that Atqui has is that we can be insensitive and hurt people even if we don't mean it personally. For instance if someone started posting "Irish jokes" - the ones in which the humour rests on the assumption that Irish people are stupid, then they would not, obviously, be meant an attack on a member because we don't know the origins of most members. But I for one (having an extremely clever Irish husband) would find them offensive.This nothing whatever to do with having a sense of humour or not.
papaoscar I'm sure we are all mortified that you are not enjoying this thread.

Exactly JessM. Thank you

Em.. Thank you Jess for the information about menopausal killer whales.

But I wasn't being insensitive and I find your tone patronising.

FFS of course it wasn't meant to be unkind. If some people take offence when none was intended then that's their problem.

The human race would have evolved the same if women died before the menopause, Jess because their daughters, carrying the gene for date of cessation of fertility, would already have been born and well on their way to bearing the next generation. It is improvements in peri-natal care, child survival and health care over the whole of life that has enabled large numbers of women to live on past their child-rearing days. It used to be commonplace for men to have several wives consecutively, losing them to childbirth or the hazards of being a woman worn out with constant pregnancies.

I repeat my posts dated 15/1/14,
timed at 17.06 and 17.07 .
Nothing to add .
Going out now for a nice lunch with a couple of girlfriends !

& S

We would have evolved but not in the same way [or as much], although I often think that the world would have been better if we hadn't given the amount of damage we've done compared to every other living creature on the planet. Interesting about Orcas though; one of the only other creatures that will hunt just for pleasure [bit fascinated with Orcas at the moment having watched Black Fish recently].

I always say " They can throw the ball but you don't have to catch it" I really do not think the comment was meant to be offensive and not aimed at anyone in particular.

Except perhaps Vanessa Feltz?

Thanks for the menopause comment JessM. I think in the Stone Age living as long as menopause set in would have been possible but unusual, though. I would be really surprised if a woman past menopause was able to breast feed without hormone replacement. But I'm open to evidence to prove me wrong!

Re the offense comments: I'm Irish! As a nation we tend have an enormous complex about our nationality and it is so easy to cause offense. Frankly, I don't get offended at 'stupid Irish' jokes because I don't apply them to me personally.

But I can see where Atqui is coming from and it is good to be made aware of how people feel. We all have our sensitivity trigger. The thing is though that the comments were directed at a particular person, Vanessa Feltz, who is pretty thick skinned apparently, not at you Atqui. Gransnetters, from what I have seen on these forums, are a caring and supportive bunch when someone has problems or just feels lousy.

I passed a comment to someone that was very tall years ago and he pointed out that I wouldn't have passed comment on someone being short so why go on about someones height as if they don't feel self conscious about it [he didn't say it in a nasty way, but I've never made a comment like that again]. That isn't to say that I'm not a complete blunderwoman when it comes to saying the wrong thing to people [Freudian slips usually]. But no one means anything in a personal way on here, although I do understand how ingrained things become; I can still remember comments made about my fat legs when I was 17 [probably why I've been on a diet ever since although still got fat legs]; I was also as flat as a pancake and had sticky out ears, not to mention thin ginger hair, freckles and a Brummie accent.As I've got older the only things that bother me now are the fat legs and thin hair.

Of course I did not take it personally.. How could I when I am not known personally. I just wanted to make the point that comments made about people's bodies are not terribly PC. People would hold up their hands in horror ,rightly, at a racist comment, but it seems to be open whatever to make fun of body shapes. It really isn't a case of whether one is thick skinned or not. Seaside postcard remarks went out in the sixties I thought! I will say no more and go out to lunch with my friends

I'll just keep quiet then ��

Phoenix, aka et other distinguished members. Many thanks! Whilst skulking in the bilges, as it were, I've managed to find and force a down a 'man-up' powder so now, recharged with what I know not I am peeking over my bows into your ocean of knowledge into which I add the following few droplets of knowledge which may or may not be of use or interest to the gathering.

Firstly, on the subject of physical endowments. As a lad in post-war Britain I was puny, well-freckled, broken nosed and the bearer of a fine set of 'Prince of Wales' ears. For these perceived defects I was often ridiculed, to the extent that my old mum used to tape my ears flat at night. It didn't work, and as I grew up I learnt how to deal with with these stupid critics and overcome my fears, so I sympathise with those who similarly suffer. There are always lots of sad people about ever-ready to point the finger of scorn. Regrettably, as an old chap I notice these days the rise of media-encouraged criticism of those of any age who not satisfy the the media-established false norms of physical appearance and/or conduct. Hence the current stigmas heaped upon the fat, the thin, the old, the smoker, the drinker, etc., etc., sometimes with cause, often without, and I would hate to think that breast-feeding would get included in this sad and cruel litany of criticism.

Secondly, my mother taught me that breast-feeding provides the infant with the finest and most natural start in life. Anything else, though necessary and sometimes vital, is a substitute for the real thing. To back up that maternal advice I could not but help notice in Africa later as a young man that African ladies always breast-fed their many children, and grandmas, mothers and kids seemed to prosper on it. And this at a time when they did all the work in their homes and fields whilst their chaps strutted about looking handsome. So, once again ma's is best, and to hell with those who complain about the size and shape of the container!

Ahhh! Effect of the powder wearing off! So before I go, just seen on Ebay a huge mahogany-boxed brass manual breast-milk pump machine with much rubber tubing and glass accoutrements which suggests that even in those days efforts to promote breast-feeding were receiving serious consideration.
Going off now to have some fun and suck a clove-ball...

....

Papaoscar

Made me smile.

DM was well endowed, but unable to produce enough milk to feed any of her children. At six weeks I still weighed less than my birth weight, despite midwife being determined to get it working. At six weeks they accepted defeat and I was bottle fed. DM tried again with first DS, again without success and when No 3 turned up, didn't even try, just put her straight on a bottle.

It was very galling for her when despite being very much among the less well endowed I fed my eldest huge hungry baby so well, he was the biggest fattest baby in the baby clinic, despite being breast fed only and repeated the process with somewhat smaller, less hungry, No2

we do need a 'like' don't we

elegran how and why did the menopause evolve then if nobody ever lived to have one in the stone age? If it was just some random gene we would not all have it. The fact that we all have a menopause strongly indicates that at some stage in our shared past, it gave a really significant advantage to offspring and other descendants.
Feeding post menopausal is entirely possible. It does not require the hormones of the menstrual cycle (oestrogen and progesterone) as long as breast tissue has developed during puberty.
Instead lactation has its own hormones - prolactin (if i remember correctly) that stimulates the cells of the breast to make milk and oxytocin that causes the "let down" and speeds up the flow of milk. Stimulation of the nerves in the nipple in turn stimulate the pituitary gland and that in turn controls the milk hormone production. Anyone with mammary tissue would start producing milk if there was enough sucking time. Even a man, if he first had artificial puberty hormones to make him grow breasts.
Big breasts do not necessarily have more milk producing tissue than much smaller ones as the difference in volume is mainly fat cells.
And it may be trickier to get the baby fixed on and sucking properly if there is a large rather than a smaller breast involved. Hard enough, I recall, to get the knack without having to deal with extra dimensions.

Sorry aka I certainly did not mean that there was any intention to be insensitive. Insensitive is something we do not mean to be. Rather that we can all "put our foot in it" from time to time, particularly when in jocular mode.

It would take a certain amount of time for the milk to 'come down' though, wouldn't it? If the baby was literally starving, it could well be too late to save it. I had presumed that in cultures/times when other relatives breast-feeding babies was commonplace, they would already be lactating, possibly also having a baby of their own to feed.

In times gone by , weren't there "wet nurses" for rich folk ?