Cut out of their lives 3

Like Nelliemoser I recoil from people in shops who smoke . I've never smoked,never had the money to waste on smoking and find stale smoke on people's clothes more offensive than a smoky room. Some dear elderly friends decided to give up smoking when they had grandchildren and put the cost of the cigarettes they didn't smoke into the post office. It ran into thousands and they went on a cruise on the QE2. I'd have liked to have said they put it all to the grand children's savings but they had a good time.

starstella As others have said smokers do not seem to realise how much the smell of cigarettes sticks to clothing and breath and all the furnishings in the house and any things that have been in the house. The smoke you have inhaled takes a long while to leave your body.

This article explains this.

www.babycentre.co.uk/x1048535/will-smoking-outside-protect-my-baby-from-second-hand-smoke

There are times when I have had to stand back from people in shop queues because the smell of stale tobacco is so bad. This will also happen
to the presents you want to take for the children.

My in laws smoked heavily (and it was what finished them both off).
In the end when the danger of passive smoking became known my sister in law banished her parents from smoking in the house.

When at work the smokers came back in from a fag break you could smell them as they walked past.
This is known to be bad for children. I know many people who suffered bronchitis etc as children from living with a smoker.

Do not disown your son about this, It is not worth it

Redhead makes excellent well-informed comments.
I am aware that so many grans who use this thread are sadly not in touch with their families through no fault of their own and I have every sympathy with them. The difference here is that there is a choice.
It strikes me that 'tough love' is needed here and that it might be more helpful and supportive to the op to encourage her to be realistic and face up to choosing between family and fags. Having made her choice she then accepts the situation she has created.

^Smoking outside is better than smoking indoors, but no matter where you smoke your baby can still be exposed to cigarette poisons.

Whenever you smoke, poisons such as nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide can get into your hair and clothes and remain there for at least an hour. You also continue to exhale these poisons for several minutes after extinguishing the cigarette. So if you have a cigarette and then hold your baby, she will breathe in these harmful substances. ^

From Babycentre. That kind of infomation given out to pregnant women by midwives, HV etc and told to let smokers know what will happen.
They was pre warning OP.
The 'no cigerette when she comes down' will still be in place when the baby is here.
Also just noticed she is due TODAY!
She wouldn't of had time or felt like re cleaning and washing.

I don't want you to smoke when you come over as we have just cleaned all the house.I said I would do what I usually do and go to the bottom of the garden or up onto the street if he preferred.He repeated they have just cleaned all the house and didn't want me coming in smelling of smoke.So I told him I couldn't do that and that his dad would come on his own.

^^ Smoke sticks to clothes. I'm a non smoker. When this 'family member' came to our house smelling of smoke. You can smell it. Where she walked, sat..wherever she went.
The sons DP is also 9 months pregnant and will be breathing in those fumes. As will the baby. Maybe they make her feel sick.
It will linger and will most likley need to re wash things.
They asked her not to smoke when she comes down, she said she will do what she has always done, they repeated theirselves and she said she cant go without a cigerette and won't come down.

Midwifes give out these 'sayings' and are told told pre warn smokers before the baby is here. That is what they was doing as those rules will still apply when the baby is here.

The women on this thread seem to loose contact through no fault of their own. At all. Their sons/DIL just seem to 'cut' contact like that.
The OP is choosing to not go to their house because she wants a cigerette instead.
It isn't her house. Its theirs and they have asked her not to smoke, she said no and therefore isn't allowed to visit.
She has a choice and is choosing the cigerette.

I'm sorry ladies, but have I missed something here? starstella isn't going into her son's and his partners home and picking up their new born after just having a cigarette outside; the baby hasn't been born yet.

She was going to go to their home to take presents for her new GD. She was told not to go, smelling of cigarette smoke because they'd cleaned the house in readiness for their new arrival. She was offended and who can blame her. This request could have been made in a more respectful manner. The visit was cancelled BUT the son and his partner go to her house, in which she presumably smokes, to collect the things that have been purchased for their child.

I originally came on to this forum and posted on the 'Cut out of their lives 2' thread. There have been numerous posts accusing posters of only wanting to hear the posts of others who are in agreement with themselves, or as mcem puts it "comments that chime with your opinions".

starstella is afraid, afraid that she will be cut out of her son's and soon to be born GD's life. With the greatest of respect, unless you've been rejected by your own child and had your gc taken from you, or, you really believe that this is going to happen to you, you have absolutely no idea how traumatic this is.

This thread is for helping and supporting people living through, or about to enter into a terrible nightmare. To suggest that starstella is putting cigarettes before her family, that you hope on her high horse she enjoys her self imposed separation from her family, is as offensive as much as it is unhelpful.

Yes, give your advice and express your opinions but do both with sensitivity and a desire to help rather than to merely condemn. The ladies on this thread are vulnerable. At the end of this month I'll have been living with this for 2 years. Another lady will have been doing so for 2 years in November, and another has been suffering for 5 years.

You cannot possibly understand what we go through unless you have the misfortune of going through it yourselves. Please remember that when you post on here.

I am sorry that you see my posts as arrogant - I am just trying to be blunt enough to stop you from making a terrible mistake that will cause you much sadness. You may not want to hear what I have said, and that is your choice, but it may be that by hearing things that you do not like you may be saved a lot of future misery.

In your original post you were talking about making the choice yourself to cut ties with your son. I am advising you not to do so. As you rightly say, not only would you be sad but your GC will lose out on two loving grandparents. I am happy to risk being seen as arrogant to try and persuade you that you need to send an olive branch and mend some fences rather than knocking them down.

There is nothing insulting about suggesting that, if you DIL is sensitive about the issue of smoking, you might wash the smell from your clothes so that she has nothing to worry about. Believe me, non-smokers can smell smoke on clothes a mile off - it does not mean you are a dirty unkempt person! "Redhead" has posted some important information in this regard that I believe you should heed for your own sake.

You do not need to be a doormat to say sorry. You just need to see the bigger picture and look beyond this blip.

The choice is yours to make.

I am guessing from your response that you are a bit of a feisty person - nothing wrong with that, but don't let it stand in the way of your future enjoyment of your family.

A quick trawl through the several incarnations of this very sad thread might convince you what is best. The people on here are in this sad situation through no fault of their own - you have the chance to avoid sharing their fate. I am advising you to take this opportunity.

Clearly you choose to accept only the comments that chime with your opinions. Surely you could think again in the light of Redhead's well-informed post. If you're so sure you're right and your son and dil are wrong I hope they enjoy their healthy baby and that you on your high horse enjoy your self-imposed separation from them.
Even more, I hope you see their point, get off the high horse, admit you're wrong and enjoy the baby.
In other words - yes you are being unreasonable.

I reallllly dont want to get into too much detail about what happened with DD1 so i will give you short version..

DD1 was made ill by a family member, due to 2nd hand smoke. Not really ill. But ill. It was because DH and myself didn't want to 'rock the boat' with this person.
Our 4 month old was ill because of it. Because of us.

I wish to god i had the umpf that your son did.
I swore i would develop a back bone for DD2.
I did and certain people lost out.

I have read the posts.WELL where do I begin?First of all Mishap I don't know why you are here or what the problem is that brought you here.I found your post judgemental and arrogant.You have assumed far too much and most of your assumptions are wrong.My first post was rushed and disjointed.I was upset.
Other people on here realise this isn't about smoking it's as Smileless says it's about control.
Mishap you said (Embrace these young women whom your sons have chosen) You will have to trust me on this but that is exactly what I did.I love my big family and as far as I am concerned the more the merrier.They have all been welcomed into my home and made to feel comfortable.My first DIL arrived from Australia penniless.She had lost her handbag and all her money.My son had only just started work and had no money,We kept both of them 'til they got on their feet,My DIL was a smoker at that time so that included her cigarettes.As for washing my clothes \i find that very insulting.Not all smokers are deadbeats you know?Most people don't even know I smoke.Hi Jean and all that.(that's a joke)
I need him more than he needs me is also not true.He has 1 mother I have 4 sons do the maths.If I began to tell you what I have done for that boy AND his girlfriend I would be here all day.My conscience is clear I couldn't do any more for either of them,

People have said if he wants us out of his life there will be nothing we can do.I know that is true because I know what we have done for both of them.I want him in my life. he is the baby of the family and we have all indulged him.But I WILL NOT be a door mat for him or anyone.
If he chooses to keep away that is his choice.I will lose out on my granddaughter and son.My little granddaughter will also lose out on 2 loving grandparents.Life isn't fair and I will continue to beat myself up about it but how far do you go?
Smileless you are a good kind woman and you don't deserve what has been done to you.I know you have missed out on so much.God willing. your prayers will be answered.Thank you for your kindness to me and for understanding that there was so much more behind the words.
Thank you every one for trying to help.
One last thought.If you want to make God laugh tell him your plans.
xx

Btw my DDs are 4 and 1 so i have no idea if it's a 'new' thing.
I was abit when (many) midwifes told me and after alot of reading it scared me to high heaven.
Alot of people don't realise how long it sticks onto your clothes, do you really want a newborn to be breathing in toxic fumes? You choose she smoke. She has no choice. Its her parents that need to stand up and do whats best for her. Not you.

I was told, either the smoker follows the routine or they don't hold the baby. Luckily we didnt have too. But we was prepared to upset whoever it was than to put our baby at risk.

Alot of these ladies have been hurt so badly buy things out of their control.. they would chew right arm off to be in your position!
Sorry but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are loosing out BIG time if you continue this.

Honestly, its a genuine fear and they feel strongly about it, they are new parents and want to do the right thing.
If you don't follow what they've asked, you won't be seen in a very good light.

Please just phone and apologise, forget the cigs for a day and just be there.

Agree that there are lots of problems about control, relationships, all sorts of hidden agenda. So what's the most straightforward way to cut through all the misunderstandings and threats? How to say 'Let's put the obvious problems behind us and start afresh?' Do everyone - especially yourself - a favour and ditch the fags! Unless of course you really have thought this through carefully and have honestly decided that cigarettes mean more go you than your family!

When i was pregnant with my DDs i was told, by my midwife that if anyone in the family smoked, they needed to wash their hands, change their top and wait 30 mins before holding the baby after a cigerette.
Gave me lots of leaflets about passive and 2nd hand smoke.
It is SO dangerous. It even contributes to cot death..

They have probley been told by the midwife to warn smokers about this as its what is best for the baby. Their baby. YOUR DGD. In their house.

Your son isn't being selfish, he is being protecting his daughter from 2nd hand smoke.
You're being selfish by putting a cigerette above the health of your newborn grand daughter.

WOW .Sorry ladies I didn't see your replies.I will answer you when I have had a chance to read them,but thankyou

I do agree with you mishap, that starstella needs to think carefully which is why I suggested that she wait and see how things develop. Sadly, too many of us on this thread know what it is like to lose a child and grand children.

She is indeed on the edge of a precipice that could wreck her life but the solution does not rest entirely in her hands. There is something very wrong here when a son and his partner cancel a visit from his parents and their sole reason for doing so, unless I'm seriously mistaken, is that they have cleaned their house in readiness for their new arrival and don't want her to enter smelling of cigarette smoke. Yet, they are both prepared to go to this mother's house and take the gifts that have been generously and lovingly purchased for their new GD.

When a new poster comes on this thread and tells us how, since the arrival of a new baby or the imminent arrival of one, their child has changed and their relationship with their child's partner has deteriorated; it makes my blood run cold.

Were it not for my own painful experience, I would assume that it's due to the stress that being a new parent brings or perhaps that the new mum has post natal depression. I would have assumed that given time, patience, love and understanding, things will settle down, but as this thread demonstrates, this isn't always the case.

When this happened to us, I thought my life was over. I have another son who I adore but still didn't think I could live the rest of my life without the son I'd lost. We were incredibly close and I still cannot believe that he has gone and I'll more than likely never see him or my gc again.

I would never say to a parent in this situation that they need their children, their children's partners and their gc more than they are needed. It simply isn't true. If it were I wouldn't be the person I am today, I would still be the crushed, emotionally drained and heartbroken woman I was 2 years ago. My heart will be forever damaged but with my dear husband, our family and friends we continue to re build our lives.

For me, that is the catalyst. If a child and their partner believes that we need them and their children more than they need us, perhaps that enables them to think they can be cruel and manipulative and we will simply put up with it.

We really did try very hard, to try and stop the rot that almost destroyed our once close and loving family but to no avail. What we wouldn't do, was apologise for things we hadn't done and we refused to take responsibility for the destructive behavior of others. Now some may say that if we had we wouldn't have lost our beloved s and only gc but I would disagree. It was going to happen; there was an inevitability about it that I cannot explain. We saw it coming within 6 weeks of our gc's birth. It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion and being unable to stop it.

I agree with you starstella that your son is behaving in an arrogant, selfish and shallow manner. That seems to be the only way our son behaves these days.

I hope and pray that even as I type this incredibly long post (sorry ladies) that you are on the 'phone with him and he is sharing with you the wonderful news that his D, your GD has arrived safe and well. That in a day or 2 you will hold her in your arms and be able to be the grandmother you deserve to be, and the grandmother your beautiful GD deserves to have in her life.

Bless you for your kind words and for thinking of me at this difficult time.and my very best wishes for you. xx

Oh thank you Yogagirl and Smileless for your answers,I am in complete turmoil over this as my granddaughter is due tomorrow.I feel so sad and lost I am going from one thing to another in my head and driving myself crazy,
I have taken on board what you have said about me disowning my son.I will think about it some more.I do love him and don't want to spoil this very special time for him.I just hope when the baby is born he suddenly understands how much parents love their children.
He is being selfish,shallow and arrogant let's hope the baby's birth will mellow him.
My friends are all outraged at his behaviour.They all know him from being born and have watched him grow up.None of them can understand why he is being like this.Our best man has been a friend for almost 40 years.He wants to go and give him a good talking to,We are lucky to have some really wonderful loyal and supportive friends.That won't solve the problem but it is a comfort.We will have to wait and see what the next few days bring.I can't believe he won't phone me to let me know she is here.I will let you know.
Smileless my heart goes out to you.You have known your gandson.Your heart must be breaking being deprived of him.My thoughts are with you.Best wishes and good luck to all.xx

yes - I do understand that this is about more than just smoking, as I made clear in my post. I was trying to demonstrate that this lady is on the edge of a precipice that could wreck her life; and saying that the smoking is such a small thing and she should not risk future happy relationships over this.

Of course our children and their partners can act irrationally, and for many posters on this thread that is sadly what has happened.

I am saying to her: recognise that she could finish up with no contact with her son and GC if she does not stand back and assess the situation rationally. The posters on this thread know how that feels and would I am sure wish to encourage this lady to do everything in her power to avoid that.

This may involve re-adjusting her whole approach to her sons' partners as she does come across as thinking that they are the flies in her "happy family" ointment. Unless she rethinks that attitude she is in for a very lonely time.

I would say to her: You need them more than they need you, so tread carefully.

I agree with you to a point mcem, I gave up smoking many years ago and am much more aware of smoke than I used to be. I work with people who smoke and go outside for a smoke. I don't smell smoke on them when the come back in and don't find it offensive. I still don't think smoking is the issue here, there is something much more disturbing going on. After many years of close and good relationship with our S and DIL. Our DGC was born. That was the beginning of the end. When we called round we were accused of being overpowering. When we held back and gave space we were accused of not being interested. I still don't know why things went so badly wrong. To be honest your logical solutions based on six of one and half a dozen of the other do not always apply.

Also not wishing to cause offence but starstella said that her son and his girlfriend called round to their house, to collect the things they had bought for the baby. Presumably the poster smokes in her own home. The girlfriends senses clearly weren't so acute that she was unable to go round and pick up her freebies.

This isn't about smoking, it's about control. starstella said they've never really got on so I'm curious to know whether smoking has previously been an issue.

Interesting point Elegran but any half way decent partner wouldn't seek to come between their partner and his/her parents and no half way decent parent would seek to come between their child and his/her partner.

I agree with Agedp you cannot know what some one is going through until you've walked a mile in their shoes. I wouldn't want my worse enemy to have to walk half a mile in mine.

Don't want to cause upset but I feel I need to point out that non-smokers are so much more aware of smoke than you might realise.
No-one ever smokes in my home and smokers think they are being considerate when they go outside for a puff. That simply doesn't work! The smell comes back into the household with them, impregnated in their clothes.
It broke my heart when teaching to be so aware of the smoke in the school uniforms of young children!
You are seriously underestimating their concerns and, if you really want your family relationships you have to reconsider your priorities.
Aren't your DGCs reason enough to try to kick the vile habit?

You're right mishap, our children grow up, find partners and create their own families but they are still a part of their extended family and that includes their parents. A 'happy family' cannot exist if one set of parents are being ostracized.

It is the nature of all relationships to adapt but this is a two way street. I agree that it is too soon for the son to be disowned but I'll re iterate what I put in my previous post. If they want to 'cut you out' they will do and there's nothing, absolutely nothing you can do about it.

This isn't about smoking, It's about control. Deciding who you want to be a part of your child's life and who you don't and God help the parents whose children and partners simply don't want them any more.

Sounds like good advice mishap, I don't smoke, but I think you miss the point. It's not about smoking at the end of the garden or washing your clothes. Something is happening here that bears a common thread, which can only be understood truly by those to whom it has happened. Logic and compromise do not come into this scenario. Yes you must try your hardest to avert disaster. But as we have found out, heads you lose, tails you lose. Do not judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

As a non-smoker, may I just say that the smell of smoke persists, even if someone has actually smoked the cigarette at the bottom of the garden. Her senses are probably particularly acute at this time, and the smell could make her feel very queasy at a time when she is feeling uncomfortable anyway. I am sure you remember those last weeks, when you were never quite right.

If you can't manage for long without a smoke, then why not make it a short visit and smoke on the way home? Give and take is the secret of a good relationship with the girls our sons choose, and at the moment give is the key word.

As Mishap says, your son now has his own life to lead, and his partner and child should be first in his priorities. Don't cut yourself off from him by not recognising this and throwing a wobbly at him. The way to keep our children is to let them go. It pays dividends.

Why would you risk losing contact with your son and GC over a cigarette? Whatever next? I am sorry to be blunt but, if you really do want to be part of a happy extended family you do need to rethink your priorities.

However I suspect there is more to it than this, as evidenced by "I have 4 sons and we were a very close and happy family until the females started arriving." What a dreadful sentiment!

The posts on this thread are tragic - I can hardly bear to read them sometimes. But they should demonstrate to you the possible future scenarios that you might be walking into.

Embrace these young women whom your sons have chosen; don't regard them as thorns in the side of your happy scenario; welcome them; adapt to their needs - or you will lose them all. The "happy family" that you talk about is a unit that has moved on - these young man are no longer part of your nuclear family - they have moved on to create lives and relationships of their own. Although we cannot choose partners for our children (and sometimes we quite rightly have concerns) we have to respect their choices at the time they are made, and welcome them into what is a new-style family.

If they are "fine young men", which I am sure they are, then trust their choices. You may not like some of the changes that their being in a relationship produces - like being with a partner who feels strongly about smoking - but if you do not adapt, you will lose so much.

The posters on this thread are in such a sad situation through no fault of their own - you are brewing up a similar situation and have the chance to draw back from the brink.

Chuck the fags for one afternoon (never mind the bottom of the garden) - wear newly washed clothes - your future family comes first. And your happiness. You proceed in this direction at your peril.