Rolf Harris

Phoenix Yes, I posted about that !!

I agree with you Rowantree few people ( other than those mentioned) are truly evil, and I dont think that RH is or was evil. What he did was wicked, and the denial and subsequent cross examination of some of the victims ( hate that word) was the worst aspect of it all. If he had pleaded guilty I would have felt a bit more sympathy for that would have indicated that he felt responsibility and possible shame for what he had done. I agree with everyone on here who hates the tabloid fuelled campaign of villification and bile. Do people really want him to be jailed until he rots or to have his bits cut off with a rusty knife all very emotive but not signs of a civilised society. He needs to be imprisoned, for punishment and protection ( his and potential victims), and then emphaisis paid on stopping this type of thing from being allowed to happen in the future.

Rosequartz, it is indeed difficult to find some redeeming feature about West or Brady. That doesn't mean there isn't one though, even if it's simply that, despite our wishes that it were otherwise, they are still fellow human beings. It's understandable that we all want to distance ourselves from them and deny that we have anything in common with them, but... I do feel that there's an unhealthy desire in some quarters, particularly the press, to encourage demonising people and polarising opinion - not that anyone at all would approve of these people's crimes, but the press ramp up and feed the hatred to epic proportions at times and it makes me feel very uncomfortable. And they do it for one reason: because they grow rich on it - for no other reason. It sells papers. But they need to groom their public to do it. And they have the audacity to throw their collective hands up at RH's grooming whilst at the same time, doing it themselves.

It seems that the case is to be referred to the Attorney General on the grounds that the sentence is too lenient.; although it seems that the judge did the best he could within the rules that the sentence has to match those that were in law at the time of the offences, and there is also some rule about some of them having to be concurrent.

Mail on-line www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2681286/PLATELLS-PEOPLE-My-old-friend-Rolf-groomed-too.html

No! Never! Or Hindley.

Yes, jingl, West and Brady are two who would spring to mind. Not RH.
However, some would disagree and find some redeeming feature about West, but I am racking my brains to think of one.

I agree that most people are a mixture of good and bad. Where I think RH has lost any trace of sympathy from most people is in the fact that once confronted with what he had done he continually denied it, called the women fantasists and made them go through the ordeal of giving evidence at his trial.

I do feel sorry for his family and hope they will be left to get on with the rest of their lives as best they can without any intrusion from the press

Evil to me smacks of Myra Hindley and Fred and Rosemary West.

Yes, people can be truly evil through and through.

Don't think RH is though.

Ana it takes three years on average to complete every module of the treatment programme, but some sex offenders who make decent progress will find there are one or two modules they can get through more quickly. For example, some offenders need to spend time addressing the abuse they experienced before they can begin to empathise with the people they have harmed - others may quickly show empathy for their victims. Issues of self-esteem may need to be addressed, but self-esteem does not have to be raised in order to lessen the risk of reoffending. Therefore, the necessary parts of the treatment programme could be completed in just less than three years inside, and refresher sessions be available after release. Each offender is different.

"Evil" to me suggests an innate wickedness that has been present since birth. Although I believe some scientists have suggested that some people have a genetic predisposition to psychopathic/sociopathic behaviour, I find it difficult to believe that people are born wholly "evil". I believe this warped behaviour must be rooted in childhood - and I think the easy access to pornography adds fuel to the fire.

I am not suggesting that people who commit these crimes have not committed evil acts or that they should not be removed from society. But they can't be locked away forever and more discussion needs to take place about how they are treated in prison - if they are made to confront the damage they have done and to find strategies to help them avoid re-offending. I believe in some Scandinavian countries, paedophiles are assigned a sort of "mentor" when they leave prison to whom they can turn when they fear they will re-offend.

I rather think that this one will run and run - or it could do!

The discussion has led to more philosophical realms with definitions of good and evil, and whether there exist absolutes of either, which I dispute, but as I said, that's my opinion only.
I'm off to think up something half-evil to do this weekend....by the pricking of my thumbs, etc

Anyone else wishing that there weren't 2 threads on this?

If you misunderstood my post and thought that I was saying that RH is totally evil, then I was not.

Sorry that you take issue with my assertion, Rowantree, but I respect your view and hope you would respect mine.

I am not going to go into some of the things I have heard in my working life over the years, but yes, some people are totally evil.
Very few have no redeeming qualities whatsoever but I remain convinced that there are some.

I think you are probably referring to people you know or have come across, Rowantree, complex personalities like most of us and probably all the more interesting for that.

I take issue with rosequartz's assertion that some people are totally evil.
I think most of us would agree that no one is totally perfectly good. Is it not a logical assumption then that no one is totally evil/bad either?

We are all of us a mixture - sometimes, some of us can be callous, thoughtless, spiteful, devious and worse, as well as kind, generous, thoughtful and sensitive, and all shades in between and beyond. Some people tend more to one than t'other. Some of us have said or done things they are now ashamed of - though not many, I hope, as awful as the crimes discussed in this thread. But how would we know, eh?
That might be a simplistic viewpoint, but there you go - it's mine.

I think I'd better leave this thread. There comes a point when you stop caring.

I suppose if he gets senile, they'll have to watch him.

That's not when's opinion, jingle. I wouldn't know...

I doubt if he really needs treatment at all Ana. He's an old man, and he is hardly likely to do it again after all this.

Yes I agree with your last post rosequartz.

While none of us are perfect, those who appear to have a good side while deliberately trampling on the rights of others should not be given sympathy. They know what they are doing is wrong and get angry when called to account. Their tears are only ever for themselves.

Yes, jingl, but is his sentence long enough to complete the treatment? (as I've said on another thread, when reckons it takes three years 'inside' to do so).

I am in agreement with Mishap.

I would add, however, that some people are totally evil through and through without anything to mitigate them. Rare, but I believe it to be true. I can think of one who then took the coward's way out when remanded in custody.

Perhaps that's where the in-prison treatment will come in useful Ana.