Rolf Harris

Hi everyone, I'm a new poster here.

I would like to add my views to what Blue22 has said and also say that I do not condone a single thing he has done, or indeed any of the others who have comitted historical sexual offences and hidden behind 'celebrity', but I would like to say that I feel at 84 he is too old to go to prison.

What ever sentence he receives will not be a life sentence, but in effect it may be if he dies as a result of this, or worse - if his wife dies.

Let's just examine what has happened. He has been found guilty and society who once loved/tolerated him now hates him.
He will no doubt, be stripped of any honours bestowed upon him including his CBE.
He will be sued and have a massive bill to pay to his lawyers resulting in the loss of his home and his money.

Isn't this enough?

Is this what we are about really??

Agree up to a point Nonnie [welcome by the way] but feel that fame shouldn't provide a hiding place for any crime, and neither should age.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Nonnie1, but the trouble is, if he doesn't get a custodial sentence, what message is that giving to other similar offenders? That said, the shame of what he's done, the current hatred and so on, is going to be a severe punishment.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and wonder what was in the contrite letter he sent to a victim's father. Did he, at some stage, recognise he'd done wrong and feel remorse for it? Do we know what was in the letter exactly? Just wondering....and he's done awful, awful things to many women, it's clear, but no one is totally evil and beyond hope, surely. I'd hate to be him, or his poor wife or daughter, right now, that's for sure. How are his family going to cope with the fallout? There's no easy answer to that.

No, he committed crimes and the sentence needs to reflect the seriousness of those crimes. Being old is not an excuse to escape justice and if the judge decides on a custodial sentence then so be it.

Being stripped of honours, etc is not part of the justice system, merely a reflection of society's disgust at what he has done.
Any civil proceedings are separate from the criminal case.

Yes, that's true - the law must take its course and you're right, the rest is society's response rather than part of criminal proceedings.
But I feel uneasy, just the same.

rowan, the letter is quoted at length in this report.

I just think of a time I was shopping with BF about 3 years ago and was tempted to buy one of his pictures (a large print); she dissuaded me firstly by saying that she thought they were crap not well executed, and that she thought was a creep. I was surprised, but she was always very astute and a good judge of character.

Sorry: secondly that she thought he was a creep.

I've come to this late (as usual) but would just like to agree with granjura.

And could someone please pm me if I'm in danger of missing anything else.

I can imagine what was said and applaud those of you who retaliated so well!

I think it will be a shame if normal loving grandfathers are affected as papaoscar suggests.

As I think I have mentioned before my brother's relationship with his grand-daughter has changed because of other peoples comments. His daughter is a single parent and his grand-daughter used to sit on his bed with him and have heart to heart talks, but someone pointed out that if she told teachers she did that, it could be misconstrued so now they have their little heart to hearts sitting on a bench in the garden. I just feel that is so sad

Welcome, nonnie. There are many elderly sex offenders in prison. They are catered for with accommodation, health access and their mobility, and they are risk assessed - it would shock you to learn how many are still high risk to children. The judge will take mitigating facts about age, health, attitude and risk into account and I expect he will explain his reasoning carefully, in the event of an appeal.

Everything he'll be stripped of are things he got from the fame which he then used for evil purposes. If he was someone who had committed the same offences but was penniless and living in a hostel no one would say 'poor man, we won't sent him to prison because he hasn't got anything'.

You do the crime, you do the time.

He has had a good run without being charged. If he had done the time as soon as he had done the deeds, he could have had the good years afterwards, though they would not have been quite so good without the fame and the money. As it is he had the very good years first, and will now have the prison years.

When I did not see the idiot child's remarks about you, or I would have included you with PapaOscar.

We can all feel sorry for an old man; and especially for his wife in this situation. But he committed crimes for which he must pay the penalty. How else can the justice system function? - or others inclined to do the same get the message that they will pay the price for their actions? It has to be.

We can all feel sorry for an old man; and especially for his wife in this situation. But he committed crimes for which he must pay the penalty. How else can the justice system function? - or others inclined to do the same get the message that they will pay the price for their actions? It has to be.

Sorry - bit of a technical hitch here!

For sure he won't escape a custodial sentence but the question is how long?

I can't work out where I stand on the issue of a long prison sentence for an 84 year old man. If he was a nazi war criminal I'd say 'let him rot in jail' without a second thought.

His life, as he knew it, is over anyway. He'll be shunned wherever he goes.

DD2 was sexually assaulted by someone who had previous as a child molester and was known to the police. He then turned his attentions to vulnerable young people, such as DD2's then boyfriend who was disabled, in order, I assume, to meet vulnerable young women. DD2 was in the wrong place at the wrong time (our house, believe it or not) and this person was acting as her boyfriend's carer (they knew nothing of his past because he lied about it). He was staying overnight with her, her BF and another friend, and took advantage of DD2 being badly affected by a combination of weed, alcohol and antidepressants. She couldn't escape from his attentions until one of the others noticed what he was doing and stopped it going any further. DD2 blamed herself, and wasn't going to report it until she discovered he had a record. She then decided that she had a duty to report it, to protect others, and endured 2 years of hell with interviews, investigations, postponment of the court case a couple of times and finally the court case itself. All that whilst suffering anxiety and depression and a painful health condition. We had to give evidence in court too (we were away from home when the attack took place but had to be character witnesses for our own daughter!) and it was one of the worst times of our lives. DD2's intimate and personal details were discussed for all to criticise and debase, and she collapsed twice in the witness box.
Eventually he was found guilty on one of the two counts, but the jury weren't unanimous. He got a custodial sentence, but that was immediately halved, so he didn't actually spend that long inside. I still wonder what on earth was in the minds of some of the jury when they didn't find him guilty on both counts, but we will never know.
I'm in no doubt that being in prison didn't do much apart from a) give DD2 a little justice - not much, but at least she didn't feel she'd gone through pursuing the case for nothing) and b) keep him off the streets for 18 months - but after that, who knows? You can't 'cure' sex offenders, of course-no one pretends you can, but how long can you keep them in prison to protect the public, and at what stage can it be decided they are no longer a danger? Not easy to answer either question.

I haven't read every word of this this thread but what I would like to say is what saddened me was how quickly former associates, and friends disassociated themselves with him and wanted to go on public record as quickly as possible. If we love someone as a friend does this stop if they do wrong- can we still love someone like this? The answer for me is yes. A friend in need is a friend indeed.

It would be beyond my limits, but I would n't go on any social media with it. Not nice.

Your DD must have some gumption to have endured all that, Rowan. It's been said a few times on Gransnet that police have walked away from court in tears after seeing a case like yours through and getting a trivial sentence. Sex offenders need at least three years inside to go right through a full treatment programme, with a decent period of probation supervision after to ensure any treatment needs that were unmet can be imposed. Derisory sentences like that really don't help, and when they're borderline in length, a hefty probation order with tight restrictions, living in probation premises and attending intensive treatment programmes are better. Sex offenders frequently complain that they would prefer prison because probation officers, social workers and psychologists 'get in their heads.'

Rowan thanks for sharing that - I do think it's helpful to have an 'inside view' of the process and its aftermath.

Very sad and very insightful Rowan

Well, we don't know what happened to him afterwards, except that the probation services saw fit to phone DD2 and let her know that he was going to be released and that he had support and housing and was getting help. She didn't want to know that! In contrast, her compensation, when it eventually came, was halved because she had an existing mental health condition (though, as she said, no amount of compensation would wipe out what had happened to her). We were gobsmacked when we knew.
And yes, whenim, she did have gumption. I don't know how she found the courage. She very nearly gave up when the court case was postponed at the last minute - but in the end she kept going till the end.

suebailey - I have some sympathy with this - I recall Shakey's words: 'Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds....' though I have the feeling that Shakey didn't have sex offenders in mind when he wrote this...

However repulsive the crime, they are still somebody's son. Or husband, father, brother, grandfather or friend. Very challenging to deal with.

The other nagging thought in my mind is....and I know that in this case the evidence is pretty damning, but juries have sometimes got it wrong in other high-profile cases. I think the key phrase is 'beyond reasonable doubt' and that isn't always necessarily obvious.

I do know of someone [friend of a friend] that was accused of a rape; they were not guilty but the stigma never went away.