throw away society

i never said 'lower class', I said 'middle class'. I meant people who are well educated with secure jobs and who have certain standards, i.e. they have a code of behaviour. Remember Nellie, Im not insulting anyone, I didn't say 'horrible , or nasty people'. I simply said 'middle class'. Also these people are not necessarily better off financially,they just have standards. As my boss used to say, you can define middle class by the fact they use tea cups and working class use mugs, yes that is out of date today, most of us I would imagine would use cups and saucers if we had guests nowadays. However I think most of us grans can relate to having 'standards' inour every day lives. Hope that answers Nellies question.

Sorry Looking back I did say 'lower social class', but what harm is there in that term, most of us are probably lower or higher class than someone alse. It need not be a derogatory term, Im happy to be lower class than say a bank manager but I consider myself a higher class than a workshy layabout.

If you absolutely have to define a category silverfish I believe the term is " socio- economic" ! But is there any point in generalising in this way? I don't see it as particularly accurate or helpful. It's like inveighing against "the young" shock horror! And as for nelliemoser I have been on to the RSPCA and you can expect an equine inspector to check on the suitabilty of your loft for a number of small equine creatures from the point of view of grazing, exercise space and availability of hay nets
Oh and as I am clearly of an elevated social class my pearls are definitely not new- DM's and MIL's.

My DS2 and DiL have made a habit of economy. Boys' clothes are passed on to my DS2's sons; books, toys and equipment are sold on Ebay or donated to a charity shop. The Ikea furniture they bought for their first home has all been sold on and replaced with vintage pieces in keeping with their present house - mostly bought from a charity shop or Ebay. Even the big fridge-freezer and range cooker were bargain buys. On thinking about it, perhaps it's just as well not all couples are like them - wouldn't be too good for the economy!

Silverfish - What you've just said reminded me of that famous John Cleese, Ronnie Barker, Ronnie Corbett sketch on That Was the Week That Was - "I look up to him because ....." "I look down on him because...." "I know my place".

"Class" is an artificial construct which seeks to classify people by means of their parental background, education, employment, income, etc. All sorts of other things have been added on (like accent, "taste", etc.), which in effect reinforce the idea that some people are "better" than others, and your last post seems to demonstrate this.

The more that people throw away, the more they buy, and that suits the business world very well.

Eloethan, I understand what you are saying but being brought up in the late 50s and 60s, we were constantly reminded at both school and home to be aspiring of a higher social class, one teacher told us that anyone with a tv, fridge and car was middle class, another told us that if we did not want to 'better' ourselves by getting a career job we did not deserve to be in the top stream at school. It stays with you all your life.

All I said was that people of a lower social class did seem to be more wasteful than those more middle class, after all the Queen is noted for parsimony. It seems that those who have more seem to appreciate it less than those who have less or who have struggled.

I loved those kids Enid Blyton stories where everyone had a servant and everyone knew their place. The world seemed a better place then

soutra I am worried now. They are all kept in a polythene bag and have probably not seen the light of day or had any food since about 1991.

That dreary old Hydra of class has raised another head. As soon as one is cut off, it seems that two more grow!

I must have gone to some funny schools (twelve in all) because nobody suggested I should be aspiring to a higher social class. Bummer!! I could have married a hooray henry gentleman farmer instead of a miner's son who went through hell and high water for a career in agriculture.

I blame the teachers.

Thank god the plebeian democratic Scottish High School I went to never mentioned class when they encouraged us to go to university and pursue a career. I imagine most of were brought up in the same decades and "class" did not feature in either my upbringing or my education.

Silverfish I loved the Enid Blyton stories too when I was young, but they reflected the lives of better off children. No doubt those with servants felt the world was a pleasant place, but I wonder if the servants felt the same. If we go back a hundred years or so when many people were "in service", their lives seemed pretty awful - getting up at some unearthly hour and working solidly all day, 6 days a week.

Same here, Soutra - our local Academy was utterly egalitarian! We didn't even look down on the teachers.
For the uninitiated, almost all local secondary schools in Scotland have always been Academies.

My school was an ordinary secondary modern, I failed the 11 plus and our teachers used to say that if we didn't work hard to pass the cse (as it was called then) we would be factory fodder !! . That was scary, I actually once worked as a domestic help when my DD was a baby and my boss was really nice she gave me all sorts of stuff she didn't need and it all helped and I respected her for it. I didn't mind the pinny or the tile 'maid'. So I have experienced what Im talking about.
However my boss kept the tea cupboard locked and she was the lady I know who used to buy reduced stuff in Asda.

In defence of Silverfish my DD and I use the group of mothers who congregate outside the post office most mornings, Red Bull in one hand and fag in the other surrounded by a gaggle of toddlers as our bench mark for many things. For all I know they may well be financially better off than me, but I doubt they'll be recycling much and the clothes, toys and buggys all look brand new.

Silverfish Maya Angelou who died this week had a horrendous childhood, including rape and vicious race discrimination, but she never let this hold her back and her death this week has been mourned through out the world.

Try reading her poems 'Phenomenal Woman' www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/178942 and 'Still I rise' www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/still-i-rise and perhaps you too will understand that your past is just that. It doesn't have to shape your future.

There is nothing wrong with factory work. My father was an army officer but my mother always worked, mainly teaching but she also worked in a factory for six months with her sister, whose husband was a senior civil servant. He, after retiring early, worked on the assembly line in a factory making shoes for 5 years. Now does that make them working class, middle class or did they shift between the two?

Nobody is 'better' than someone else because they have a higher income or bigger office, similarly nobody is 'lower' than somebody because they earn less or do physical labour. The two most contemptible people I have ever known were far senior to me and much better off, while among those whom I most respect are people whose jobs and incomes were much more restricted than mine.

Crikey, I don't remember everyone having servants in the Enid Blyton books I read! Did they really, or do I just not remember because it wasn't in my own experience...?

I seem to think William's family (in the Just William series) had some sort of maid, but not 'servants' as such.

(I know the author of the William books was Richmal Crompton, not Enid Blyton, but round about the same era)

They all seemed to have cooks, 'Ana', serving up all kinds of fatty/sugary delights.

How come they didn't have a childhood obesity epidemic?

Must have been all that cycling.

A year or two ago I found an old newspaper ( local evening one ) from 1940 and there was a column with job advertisements. I was tickled to see an advert for a live in maid for a house opposite where my sister lives now, a fairly ordinary semi detached. Where I lived most of the neighbours had daily ladies who cleaned and cared for the children but no live in staff.

would agree with most of the posters - it must be a generational thing.
my particular bugbear is replacing something with a newer 'allegedly better' thing while the old version works perfectly well and is fit for purpose.
to that end I have an old Sony CRT TV with digibox bought on Ebay, drive a 21 year old VW golf, my kitchen mixer is 15 years old, the microwave is at least 10, my sofa 20 years old, my fridge 5 years old - oh and the dog is 10.
I almost never buy furniture or clothes brand new - either sale items or charity shop
and I still look at the reduced to clear / special offer shelf in the supermarkets.

Some of Enid Blyton's character's families had Cooks , who would make buns for tea.

I'm not sure things are very different. Some of us have always been happy to buy from charity shops, accept with gratitude passed on children's clothes and toys. Others would only ever put their children in brand new prams/clothes and allow them brand new toys.
Silverfish - don't want to derail your thread, but I empathise with your comments about secondary modern education. We had an inspirational head teacher, we studied 5 O levels, and there were frequent trips to encourage an interest in the Arts. But, the first week, aged 11 my class was given detention by a student teacher (noisy in line was the crime) He lectured the assembled group of 11 year olds on the fact that we'd never achieve anything in our lives, we were "failures, and always will be". He pointed to the grammar school across the road, and told us that as we were not bright enough to be there, the best we could hope for was unskilled factory work. Unspeakable little snob. I accept that the subject of grammar schools is controversial but I am so thankful that children today have more equal opportunities than in the days when an average of only 18 - 20% of 11 year olds were given the educational opportunities that open the way to higher education and career options.

I've still got a number of very complicated, made up, Lego sets of Ds's (he is 32-ish now) on top of the wardrobe in his old bedroom. With a tablecloth chucked over them to keep the dust off. I didn't even get those down for grandsons to play with.

We've still got a rhyming book about a family of cats knocking about this house somewhere, and they've got a cook! They're cats!

Silverfish my mum was always grateful for the clothes the posh women who she cleaned for, passed on to her. Why not? Good quality stuff.