I was so disappointed

I use the oath...Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Is that blasphemy or simply a list of names?

Would you have preferred it if the presenter had said, "F**king hell!" when he came face to face with a wolf?

It's hardly the situation when you would say, "Golly gosh," is it? Unless you're part of the Famous Five. I'm sure in that situation Julian would have strangled the wolf with his bare hands, skinned it and made a lovely coat for Anne who would have simpered about how wonderful he was whilst she cleaned up the blood and guts.

Being surprised is not the same as being bored.
Whether that expletive should have been allowed or not, is a matter of opinion. But the assertion that a similar expletive involving another religion would have been something for which the beeb would apologise, should concern us all.
An accusation that our national broadcaster is biased one way or another needs to be taken seriously. Impartiality lies (or should) at the heart of public service.
So, yes I think this is important and (IMO) we ought to make a lot of it.

The mention of Islam is totally irrelevant to this discussion and appears to me as an unedifying side swipe at another religion.

Never forget our UKs dreadful history of religious persecution and bigotry.

Its bigotry and misinterpretation of scriptures that cause wars and hatred not a religion itself.

Whilst I agree that the UK did have a history of religious persecution and bigotry, we were not alone in that, certainly Spain and France carried out their fair share, particularly Spain where the Inquisition was conceived, but it's irrelevant to the discussion really, most places in the world behaved appallingly in different times.

We can't change the past we can only concern ourselves with the here and now. Whilst we have moved on many places in the world are morphing back into the very dark times we left centuries ago.

Islam is mentioned in this context as many of us know it's treated as a sacred cow so I suppose the point NanKate was originally making, is that the BBC particularly, does not give practicing Christians the reverence and respect that it does for the adherents of Islam, purely on the basis that we all now have to be very careful not to antagonise the fundamentalists followers of that religion.

It was you saying how predictable the thread was that made me think you found it boring Gerente. As I said previously on the thread, the point about tolerance by the Beeb for Christian blasphemy as opposed to their utter fear of offending anything Islam, is a very valid point. And one that should be raised more often.

I don't think the posters who mentioned Islam were having a go at Islam. I think they were pointing out that mockery of some religions and their adherents is now apparently acceptable. But most media organisations hesitate to mock Islam. And the Beeb regularly shows comedians and others who ridicule belief in God and particularly, Christianity, but it doesn't show much (any?) mockery of Islam. I think this is a good thing. I just wish they would apply it to all faiths. No-one has addressed my point about sexism, racism and homophobia. These areas are where we now show respect, thank goodness. But why stop being respectful of other sensitive areas?

Crossed posts, jingl

But was it mockery? The man had just come face to a face with a wolf. Surely it was simply an expression of shock.

Mockery is totally different. I don't this man or programme set out to make fun of Christianity. Would you have preferred it if the phrase had been bleeped out so we could just assume he'd understandably used an expletive.

Sounds like it should have been bleeped out. Think I must have an autobleep function in my head as I didn't hear anything surprising!

nelliem, I was not making what you call a side swipe at a religion when I mentioned that in some countries people are murdered for what some of the people there tink blasphemous. I was stating a matter of fact. People also get jailed in some countries for being "blasphemous". I think it is important to acknowledge that we are a darn sight luckier to live in a country where people can blaspheme or use expletives that others object to without violence being resorted to. Free speech is very important. Part of the price we pay for free speech is that sometimes we will hear things we don't particularly like, that we choose to take offence at. Free speech protects everyone. I don't like a lot of things other people say but I defend their right to say them. That is what this is about.

You can call it a side swipe at people who resort to violence if you like, though I'd prefer the description to be a head on collision. I am not ashamed of facing up to what I think needs to be faced up to. Violent reactions to someone saying something you don't like are wrong and should be opposed. That's what I'm doing on this thread.

OK, the OP reaction wasn't violent but it "taking offence" needs to be challenged in my view, so I have challenged it.

The fact that many people did not take offence at the words in question shows that the words and their usage in that situation were not intrinsically offensive.

What happened to live and let live when something harms no-one and nothing?

We're allowed to mock.

Why are so many people in favour of censorship? To what end? Just as expletives/blasphemy don't harm anyone, censorship doesn't help anyone.

I did not actually mention Islam in my "side swipe". People assumed that's what I meant. Says more about them than me. I don't actually care what religion violent people follow. Religion is not the issue I have a problem with here; the problem is the violence.

Stop taking offence, people!

Yes, let's all uphold the principle of free speech, couldn't agree more, and that should mean being able to say what we like and not having to avoid being 'rude' about certain religions in case we get bombed off the face of the earth. But hang on - where does the idea of 'respect' come in here? Perhaps respect has to be mutual or it doesn't count?

Someone called Whelan has been banned from football for six weeks for making a racist remark.

It's quite common these days for someone to lose their job, be ostracised, hounded and disgraced because of something they said.

I don't know why some people are under the impression we have free speech in this country

Totally agree with you in principle thatbags.

My comment was that the mention of Islam in the OP, by the OP- was totally irrelevant in this case, and therefore superfluous.

Agree, petallus. If you don't feel something matters, you don't care if people are rude about it! The things we feel should be automatically respected today aren't what they were thirty years ago. As terribull says, our sacred cows are different creatures now. And it's perfectly reasonable to be sad that so many have been needlessly slaughtered to entertain people.

I was brought up to be polite, and considerate to the feelings of others. This includes making an effort not to cause hurt to someone else whose views or beliefs may be different to my own, but are not harmful to me or anyone else. Mockery of others, or downright rudeness, just for the sake of it, under the banner of freedom of speech, liberalism or modernity, is never acceptable in my book. This doesn't mean that I don't have plenty of vitriol and mockery reserved for those who deserve it.

I didn't see this programme, so wouldn't know whether the presenter meant to cause offence. But I don't think the OP should be patronised for feeling hurt by it.

It would have been better all round for the offending words to have been removed before showing the film. Nobody would have known.As I said before, other nature presenters are either careful with their speech, or have things edited out, so it's not unknown to do that.It was a conscious decision to leave it in to make it all so dramatic.

MAGGIE that is a really good post!!
Good on you !!

I have been offended on ocassion by various comments. If, from a particularly nasty individual, I don't entertain them with the satisfaction that they have indeed offended me, I ignore. If, from someone I sense has unintentionally offended me, I understand that and ignore.

I would imagine it resounds with quite a few posters on this site!!

I was not referring to GN Nonu

What I meant by my post was that, in this instance, I don't believe Gordon Buchanan was intentionally being offensive.