bettering oneself

We went to Liverpool recently and I saw some young girls in the city centre with rollers in their hair. They were lovely near girls. I loved it. It reminded me of my teenage years, popping into town to buy something new for a night out with our rollers in. What's wrong with that?

lovely neat girls I meant!

ethelbags, sadly there will be people with the same mind set as you who look down on you as you look down on others. I would rather talk to a person who replies with a uh or na, than a person who puts on an affected accent .

Snobs irritate me but I do feel so sorry for them , they must surely be unhappy having to work out who they should struggle to impress and who they should turn up their noses at

I think ethel is being totally honest; how many others can say that?

Of course most people wish to better themselves. If I had not and no progress had been made by others, I would still be trekking down the road in the cold and rain to put 4d in the public telephone to make a phone call.

If the majority of people did not want to 'better themselves' no-one would achieve anything.
However, that does not mean looking down on people who are less fortunate than ourselves, I think ethel means those who make no effort.

Nor does it mean we are going to turn into Hyacinth Buckets - or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c

I know my place!!

I didn't realise people still used rollers these days anyway! Fancy that!

I think (for what its worth) that we are all surely as good as we could be, given whatever circumstances we find ourselves in.

I don't look up or down to anyone. I am who I am, take me or leave me. I couldn't talk posh to save my life and nor would I want to. On the other hand I always try to be polite and treat everyone as I would wish to be treat.

I hate snobs.

I agree with rosequartz - and it's actually refreshing to hear someone admitting to certain attitudes which seem to be unacceptable to those who have responded.

It is all in the interpretation of the phrase 'bettering yourself' isn't it.

If bettering yourself means striving hard under whatever circumstances to achieve a better standard of living than you had as a child then why not? If you earn more, then you pay more tax some of which should be going to help those who are less fortunate than you - or yourself if you fall on hard times.

It doesn't mean being snobbish and looking down on people who have less than you or have an accent.

However, I do get the feeling from some posts that many Gnetters (not all!) came from very 'middle-class' backgrounds and therefore would not have that urge to 'better themselves' because they took for granted a certain standard of living and expectations of higher education.

One of the benefits of a religious education was having it constantly drummed into me that we are all equal in the sight of God.

That knowledge does not stop people being aspirational and ambitious to make the most of their abilities and achieve all in life that they can. Nor does it stop one feeling admiration and respect for those who overcome all kinds of obstacles, to achieve what they achieve in life.

But at the end of the day these people are made of the same stuff as us, came into being the same way and will leave it the same way. I am not going to be deferential to anyone just because I admire them nor will I expect deference from nor treat worse someone whose behaviour I deplore.

Changing the way one speaks when speaking to a person one considers posh isn't bettering one's self , it's just saying - you will not accept me as i truely am , sorry but for me it's a form of grovelling

I still use rollers, those big velcro ones

But some people do pick up accents unconsciously - and some never lose theirs! Relatives who went to Canada 50+ years ago are a case in point - he never lost his accent but she has been truly 'Canadian' for years.

I notice both DDs have an Aussie twang. I don't think they are grovelling, I think that many people tend to pick up the accent of people they mix with or live with.

KatyK perhaps I need to look for mine, to tame my hair!
but I won't go down to Tesco in them

rose - I wouldn't wish the sight of me in mine on the great British public, I stay firmly indoors. They do a good job.

My cousin - now retired - has a broad Cornish accent, and Oxford University, The Treasury and the IMF had not a jot of influence on his accent. However, he moved to the IMF after a couple of years in The Treasury as he couldn't stand the snobbishness by the people there.

I think changing one's accent is not so often a case of snobbishness (although it will be in some cases), it is more a case of some people being more natural mimics than others and they probably do so unconsciously.

A person can 'speak posh' and not be a snob in the slightest bit.

Another person could still have an accent (without realising it!) and be an insufferable social climber.

I worked in a government department for 37 years and the way some of the higher grades treated the lower grades was truly appalling.

Choosing to change how one speaks to one particular person is not doing so unconsciously

rosequartz we speak a little bit as you describe up thread but only indoors you understand.

When I was in my teens and twenties, I`d often go into town shopping with rollers in and wearing a headscarf, but wouldn`t dream of it nowadays. And hubby goes everywhere in jogging pants these days, because ordinary trousers don`t cover his stoma bag.
When I first left school, I was a GPO telephone operator for 4 years, for which I was required to speak "proper", but it came and went as I arrived at, and left, work, the rest of the time I was as common as the rest of them.

ethelbags If you wish to look down on certain people for their mode of dress, the way they speak, etc., etc., then you presumably accept that some people will also look down on you for similar reasons. Personally, I would prefer not to categorise people as "inferior to me", "equal to me" and "superior to me" because I don't want to feel bad about myself or make others feel bad about themselves.

Unless you know the entire details of a person's life, I don't understand how you could possibly assess who is a legitimate benefit claimant and who is a "scrounger".

I learned never to judge by appearances when I worked for a charity. I regularly visited two ladies. Both would greet me at the door with a smile, well-dressed made-up and looking the picture of health but I knew that one was in constant severe pain that meant once a week she was driven to take a painkiller that gave her 24 hours of diarrhea, nausea and dizziness, but did reduce the pain and she reckoned the other symptoms were more bearable then the pain. The second was deaf, had severe meuniers disease that meant at times she had to crawl round the house and became incontinent, plus other problems. Yet to see them at the door, or the second one walking down the road during a good phase, holding her husband's arm for support, no-one seeing them could possibly realise just how ill and how difficult their lives were.

I would hope that as we get older, we learn to judge by appearances less. Some people have terrible tragedies and learn to hide it well and paint on a smile for the world. Some are less able to do so.

I am afraid I tend to start using the accent of the person I am talking to if it is pronounced, I do this quite unconsciously. After time with my 2yr old DGS I start to use Yorkshire vowels.

Thank heavens very few people now speak like BBC Announcers in the 1960s. I still remember a woman on a bus in the late 1950s who said "orf" instead of off.

I like our regional accents but it does help if they are modified enough for most English speakers to comprehend. Some intense regional accents can be so heavy only locals could under stand them.

When I lived in Bristol, which has a very distinctive west country accent several school friends were sent to elocution lessons. I was considered to talk posh as I didn't have a Bristol accent, just my East Midlands flat vowels.

I don't think now elocution teachers try to abolish regional accents but just make sure diction is clear and not mumbled.

Yay, numberplease, my mam was a GPO telephonist and she insisted I spoke GPO English at home. I spoke 'Ull when lurkin out wi m' ma'es because it saved me from geddin me 'ed kicked in for being posh.