bettering oneself

It does seem that the worst possible interpretation has been put on your posts by some, etheltbags1.

I think you made it perfectly clear that it wasn't all people 'on benefits' you had an issue with, just those who have no intention of working (and there are some!) and who seem to have little regard for their environment and/or the wellbeing of their children.

You're very lucky to have a year's sick pay from your employer - it's usually only 6 months!

1 year is great ethel, I did get 6 months sick pay which I thought was wonderful and helped at a difficult time.

I am sure you will back and fighting fit again by then - but don't rush back too soon!

No, I could not be friends with people like that and I doubt that anyone on here could.

We noticed when we moved here that no-one wanted to buy (cheaply) second-hand furniture or indeed anything; the people you may think are in need could get everything they needed brand new courtesy of the tax payer.

If you offer things on Freecycle the people who come are either secondhand dealers or, to coin a phrase, very middle-class!!
Parents at a school in a rather more deprived area of the town which my DD attended turned their noses up at the suggestion of a 2nd hand uniform sale; parents I know whose children went to private school ran a very successful 50/50 scheme for second-hand uniform.

rose I am on the sick at the minute but not receiving anything from the dwp, I get paid from my employer for up to 1 year, by which time I intend to be back to work again asap.

I don't like the class-ridden notion of 'bettering oneself'. From what base, to what end? I believe that the very best way of improving one's chances are by education - not elocution. My parents ensured that we made the most of the opportunities afforded to us by a good Scottish education throughout school and university. They let us know that they were proud of us. That was good enough for me.

Without reading the latest posts, I would say that ethel is no more than in her late 50s. Probably younger.

Did she say on another thread that she needs a certificate from the doctor because she is off work at the moment?

Ethel I think your in-laws have exacerbated the feeling of inferiority that your teacher gave you all those years ago. TAKE NO NOTICE, you are as good as anyone!

gillybob and the rest of you, I was not saying that to share a bag of chips was socially inferior. I said that the family I was referring to fed their kids with one bowl of chips on the floor like animals. This was not the kids fault, I was meaning that the parents were at fault and I would not like to associate with people like them. I would also not like comdoms and tampons in my garden and if someone put them their I would remove them.

I think I can see where you're coming from ethelbags
Particularly when I know someone long-term unemployed who's got a new 50" tv, the 3rd one in his house, and openly is boasting that he'd spent £2500 on his (only) daughter's Christmas presents and that people who work are idiots, he's never been better off being on the dole etc
Somehow we seem to have some people in society who expect everything to be handed over to them on a plate.........?

petra no need for insults. I have never insulted you either on a forum or in a pm.

Nellie no Ive said I understand that some people may be on benefits through no fault of their own but its not the benefits its the attitude. As I said above, the attitude that the 'state will pay' really annoys me.
Why should hard working people be undermined by those that don't work/wont work, being able to achieve the same or better material possessions.
If someone is of low intelligence and cant work then they should have basic needs me by the state but I see all around me these people in purpose build bungalows with ever gadget available and its so unfair. I've had to strive for everything I have (mostly second hand) and I resent that.
At one time 'poor' meant poor and those that were poor were helped by others who were better off and they were grateful. Nowadys the disadvantaged are the new rich.
Example , I gave a bag of good clean baby clothes to a grandma to pass on to her daughter. The bag was thrown back at my front door, she said they did not want used stuff, none of them had a job between them. When my DD was small I would have been grateful for them and we both worked. The list is endless but It is attitude that matters. I look up to hard workers, people who have earned everything, worked hard to own a house and have nice things.

Rosequartz. I think Ethel gave that impression Re VQs post.
Ethel. You spoke about mixing with older people. Would it be rude of me to ask how old you are. I'll be honest and put your age in the late 70s.

Julliette and Rosequartz, me too, still sometimes feel I'd have to eat surreptitiously or else!

I think it's something about others' standards imprinting you from an early age and perhaps finding it hard to accept that 'your/your parents'' standards are not necessarily shared by others - certainly my mother's opinions on social attitudes now sometimes seem almost bigoted and unacceptable to me. She came from a fairly poor background and desperately wanted to be 'higher up' the social ladder, and wanted us up there too.

'Bettering yourself' is, IMO, about doing the best you can, with what you have or can access, stretching yourself etc, but this isn't necessarily something everyone can do particularly if you meet widespread opposition and struggle to even manage day to day.

Social climbing is different, using others as rungs on a ladder to get something or somewhere, possibly when you might not have the abilities to achieve on your own?

I was frequently dismayed/shocked when district nursing because I had no reference point to refer from my upbringing, learned very quickly though!

#waittogetshotdown

VQ I don't think ethel was asking that.

Unless, of course you are badly behaved (in which case you could be great fun ) #granniebehavingdisgracefully

Ethelbags1 Running through this thread it seems there are two slightly different takes on "bettering oneself."

One is having aspirations towards better education and better jobs working enough at school to do so even if you do come from a social background that is or appears to be looks fairly poor.

The other interpretation seems to be aiming at being a social climber, trying to associate with those who are, of what that person themselves considers to be of a higher class.

There was an expression in that "higher class group" probably little used now, about not associating socially with those who are "not our sort of people".
Which in its time meant, those who considered themselves posh and of better breeding, feeling that the working poor were of a lower social class and less "well bred." Or didn't come from a "Good family" or an Old family".
That dreadful line in All things bright and beautiful.
"The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly and ordered their estate. Says a lot about social attitudes in 1848. It was not until the 1960s that such things began to change a bit.

Ethelbags1 from your posts it appears to me you are considering you want to be in the latter "Hyacinth Bucket" category. Am I right in thinking that?
Have you ever read Howards End by E M Forster or seen the very good film. It's all about Social snobbery in Edwardian times and the condescending way this very posh family behave towards a working class man who is trying to educate himself and indulge in cultural activities.

I think my DD has 'bettered herself'. We live in a small, neat house in an average suburb of the city. She lives in a more rural area about 4 miles from here. Her house is in a sorry state whilst ours is always well maintained. She has troublesome neighbours and while she was here over Christmas she said to me 'I think I'd rather be living around here and that's saying something'

Ethel, I'm on benefits. Do you look down on me and think I shouldn't be a member of Gransnet?

Ha ha, that has happened to DH and to me - I lost my lovely crab sandwiches which I hadn't even opened, and DH lost his icecream!

They are menaces - rats with wings.

Try to eat anything on the seafront round here and you'll be sharing it all right - with the local seagulls!

Without your hat, Juliette

We got an order mark if it was tilted to the back of our heads in a jaunty fashion!!

I have eaten in public, but very nervously!!

gillybob No it does not make you an animal at all. It is very special to share a bag of chips walking along the seaside front, you just enjoy it.

I've never been one to "better myself" really. I got brought up with lots of great friends, had a brother to confide in and laugh with, went to a wonderful primary school, snobbish secondary and am very down to earth and am not changing now for anyone. I hate snobbery. I can get on with anyone from a homeless person in the street (who I do go and get something to eat and drink for normally) to the surgeons in top hospitals, it makes no difference, they are all people, living and breathing and deserve respect. I treat as I am treated.

And I eat Greggs sausage rolls in public!

rose did you get an order mark if you were seen outside without your hat too? I still can't eat in the street but I've overcome the hat bit.

gillybob I always feel guilty if I eat in the street - always imagining a prefect is behind me waiting to give me an order mark for eating in school uniform.
I left school over 50 years ago, it's time I got over it!

janer I was always warned by DM not to be 'mardy'!

I used to say to DH 'I can't stand a mardy kid, especially when it's one of my own!'

There's posh for you!

That's the spirit, Ethel. I'll do something for you, but you have to give something back.
Do you have to form your views from everyone else? Your mixing with older people and now questioning their views and now your thinking of mixing with younger people, to what, take on their views?

Vampirequeen said

'Yay, numberplease, my mam was a GPO telephonist and she insisted I spoke GPO English at home. I spoke 'Ull when lurkin out wi m' ma'es because it saved me from geddin me 'ed kicked in for being posh.'

Exactly what my daughter did when we moved to Lincs and she went to school there. I got such a shock when she started to bring friends home - I could barely understand her! Twelve years on and you would never know that she was once referring to friends as 'mardy old cows'!