bettering oneself

Ethel, I am sadden that you cannot feel comfortable being you, if you have a need to speak posher to that woman she is making you feel a lesser person and you are not x

You are right, mcem. I don't agree with ethel but she has been honest and listened too - no silly asides etc. it has given me pause for thought. (And brought my mother to mind, but that is another story..)

I am starting to get the feeling that this is really all about who has got the most money. I would be happy to be corrected but it all seems to point that way.

A real treat for DH and I is a shared bag of chips walking along the sea front on a cold winter evening. I guess that makes us animals then.

Although I don't agree with much of what ethel says I think she is absolutely right to put forward her point of view. She does this in a thoughtful and articulate way and doesn't resort to hints, nudges and coy little asides. She introduced the topic, has taken on the different arguments which have been put forward and has said that they've given her food for thought. So a successful thread even if she hasn't persuaded others to her opinion.
Well done ethel. You introduced an interesting topic and I still don't agree with most of your philosophy but I too been prompted to think through something which, like soutra, I'd never seen ad an issue!

I also know my attitude is a bit old fashioned so I will try to be more forward thinking but it is difficult, I will try to mix more with younger people and less with oldies. My friends are almost all older than me and all better off then me so maybe their attitudes have rubbed off.

Have to try harder I guess

Don't get me wrong I will help anyone in need but I just like to think that if I help someone they will also try to help themselves. It is attitude that matters, anyone can find themselves in a bad way but it is their determination to help themselves or 'better themselves' that matters, not this, 'the state will pay' attitude.

I can't argue with that ethelt and I hope you didn't feel anyone was expecting you to say that anti social behaviour or child neglect is fine.

Hope the garden in question was not your next door neighbour's though! or even soontobe might find it hard to " love thy neighbour as thyself" !!

No hard feelings I hope?

your thoughts have certainly made me think. I knew you would think I am a snob (maybe I am)but there are certain criteria that mark decent people out from others.

Example, a family I know and quite liked until I saw the state of their front garden, it had dirty tampons strewn amid used condoms, I once was inside their home which is quite dirty and saw the 2 children being fed from a bowl of chips on the floor from which they had to share just like animals. (my animals at least have their own bowls). Sorry I just couldn't respect them anymore and have never seen them again.

Todays standards are getting lower and while I agree that what someone does in their own home is their business, I just cant feel at ease with people who display slovenly and disgusting behaviour outside.

I also hate the attitude that the state will pay for everything, if someone cannot work for whatever reason, they manage to have the same material advantages, I see many families with cars and huge dogs to feed who are on benefits. I work and cannot afford a dog so it annoys me. There is no incentive to work these days and I wont mix with scroungers.

Nonu Ethel is, of course, absolutely entitled to her own thoughts, but once your thoughts no longer remain in your head but have been aired on a public forum, it is surely reasonable that other people should be able to respond with their own views?

soutra surely has ,.Anno

Nonu, the last words of the OP were 'Any comments'. Isn't that what Soutra has been giving?

Ethel. Do you aspire to be a 'Hyacynth Bucket' even though she is laughed at?

Soutra,19.51. you go ahead in your usual little way, didn't say you could not comment,just think it might be kind to allow Ethel. to have her own thoughts .

Yes, of course Soutra. Ethel was asking for our opinions and we have given them!

Although when I was growing up I longed to have a bigger house than the one we were all squashed into (nice and comfortable though it was), a car and a telephone. Those aspirations would mean nothing to a child who had been brought up with those things, which many of my friends were. I hope that does not make me shallow!

Perhaps 'bettering oneself' is a term used in certain parts of the country for 'aspiring to do or be the best one can' anyway.

I think we are talking completely at cross purposes * rosequartz*, I was talking about the comment re " looking down" on some people for reasons I thought questionable to say the least (not that there are any good reasons I can think of for "looking down" on anybody?) - jogging bottoms or being in receipt of benefits.
My plea was for greater tolerance, to be more broadminded and I thought OP could find greater happiness by being less judgemental. For which I was taken to task it seems!! I too had thought that OP was asking for opinions but Nonu seemed to feel I had no right to comment. Ah well.
The term "bettering oneself" is entirely alien to me. Aspiring to do or be the best one can is one thing, but I have never felt the inferior of anybody on account of their school or size of car or indeed of the number of bedrooms in their house!!!
I hope that clears it up?

soutra I think my horizons have been broadened considerably in my adult life too - but is that 'bettering myself'? I have questioned what the term means in previous posts (perhaps you didn't read them, this thread is getting quite long, so fair enough) and did poke fun at the thought of looking down at people or up to others when I posted a link to the Two Ronnies/John Cleese sketch. I hope I am broadminded.
The OP asked what we thought and I think we have given ethel a fair idea of our views. Obviously that teacher struck a chord with her which made her determined to 'better' herself. I can empathise with that as most of my schoolfriends' families were better off than mine.

I would 'look up' to people I admire who have achieved a great deal in life; I don't look down on people but have no truck with people who take the taxpayer for granted, be they people who refuse to work or MPs who fiddle their expenses. My friends come from all walks of life, some may be considered 'posh', some are resolutely what they would term 'working class'.

Apparently DH came home from boarding school (no, not a posh one) every term with a different accent and his DM used to sigh 'who have you been mixing with this term?'. Was he trying to fit in or is he a natural mimic like the rest of our family?

And yes, I can swear like a trooper (just ask DH) but wouldn't do so, or would try not to, if I was out in town!

What are you talking about, Nonu? Just too abstruse for me, I am afraid.

18.14.
You are a card SOUTRA, but I like you .
Nudge,Nudge , wink as D.E.would say!!

I agree with you again, rosequartz.

It didn't strike me that ethel was particularly proud of the way she judges people, it's just the way she is, and anyone who had little self-confidence when younger can surely empathise with trying to find a way to 'fit in'.

Yes, it is an old-fashioned attitude these days, but I bet there are many (not of course on GN, heaven forbid!) who still hold similar opinions to ethel to some extent.

Katek I did much the same for the same reasons. At one point, attending an American school, but not in the USA, I developed a beautiful American accent.

DH has a slight North Bucks accent that always deepens, not deliberately, when talking to others with regional accents.

And if I am being honest rosequartz I would say that my life experiences have opened my eyes and widened my horizons. My issue was not with bad language (although I have some wonderful friends who can swear like a trooper should the need arise and if they are true friends that would not be a problem) but with the comment that OP "looks down on those she considers socially inferior" and "can't stand and looks down on people who wear baggy jogging pants" etc (today Thursday 09:36:40)

What is wrong with a plea to be more broadminded then?

I travelled extensively as a child/teenager and found my accent changing dependent on where we were living at the time. It was simply the accent I heard most of and I naturally slipped into it. I still have a tendency to do that now but not to the same extent, often it's sort of an inverse snobbery if I'm honest as I don't want to be thought of as 'posh'

Well spotted. Nonu!

OOPS< TYPO SOUTRA

SOTRA , was that post addressed to me ?