ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Have a Strep throat so unusually unable to sleep! Jammy what a terrible start to life for you and veexox , I think you're doing very well ! I have been absent because I have come to realise that many people will not and sometimes cannot forgive . We go about our daily lives trying to make good connections but sometimes others are not communicative so when they are hurt by things they say nothing but hold that hurt until they can't cope . It is the reason GPs get estranged - forgiveness is vital but you cannot demand it and sadly without it, no connections can be maintained. We may not intend any hurt whatsoever but that doesn't mean there won't be some taken in almost any scenario . Miss my DD but that is for her to realise and she may not . I refuse to waste my days waiting for her to forgive me . I am hurt but I would forgive her in an instant if she needed it but again, right now she clearly needs space so I am loving my life and hope she is too. As always , all any of us really want is a trusting relationship with those we love ; for that we need honest communication in an environment of mutual caring and respect. That's the ideal, no surprises but it happens with life long friends and in families so we should simply be grateful for this wheresoever it occurs and wish those who are driven to cut us from their lives peace - something they probably won't attain easily either for an inability to forgive takes energy to maintain . Energy is needed in this life for making good things happen so remaining angry will inevitably take its toll. I wish all of you a day full of smiles and laughter and be gentle on yourselves and those you love . Back to quacks then back to a terrifyingly full life :-)

Interesting couple of weeks so I decided to relax and let mil play mummy to dd while me and dh went to stay in a hotel for the weekend I get a phone call the next morning saying dd was crying asking for us. We got back home and mil didn't interfere at all she went home shortly after she said dd had been a handful the whole time haven't heard anything this week not a phone call or Skype I think her fantasy was very different to the reality.

What a shame veexox after so much criticism of your m.i.l. that you couldn't have also found something positive to say. That it was good of her to give you and your husband the opportunity to have a weekend away, that she was caring and sensible enough to 'phone you when your daughter was so upset, that on your return she freely admitted that she'd found her a handful.

Maybe she's hoping that she would get a reassuring 'phone call or Skype from you and her son, that she wasn't to worry about having to get you to come home together with some gratitude that although she'd 'failed' at least she'd tried.

I wouldn't have said that she was "play(ing) mummy", just wanting to be a grand mother and supportive mother and m.i.l.

Hi veexox. Just to say I completely understand where you are coming from and if you don't get support here, then there is lots of support from the Relationships section on mumsnet. Smileless - there are loads of MILs (and mothers !) who want another go at being mummy and are completely overbearing (my health visitor had huge concerns over my MIL). Luckily, there are many more who are lovely, caring supportive MILs and mothers. Best of luck veexox.

I don't know why you think veexox hasn't had any support on this thread fiftyshadesofbonkers.

I was just rather surprised that having been so critical of her mil for wanting to 'be mummy to dd', that when she wanted an understandable weekend away with her husband, she was quite happy for her mil to "play mummy". An interesting choice of words too, not be grandma to her grand daughter for the weekend, but "be mummy".

I think this is a generational thing.

I put up with my in-laws and mother's criticisms for the sake of my kids. I wanted them to grow up with grandparents and accept them for the people they were good or bad. I often wished I could cut them out of my life if even for a month's respite but of course I didn't because it wasn't all about me.

When my husband passed away my youngest son who was 35 at the time cut me and his brothers out of his life because of real or imagined unfairness. I heard nothing from him for a whole year and he only got back in touch when he and his wife had a baby. He is still very distant towards me and won't have his brothers mentioned when I see him which is rarely.

I think as a generation, (war babies and boomers) we had a very strong sense of duty. We raised our children to have much more freedom of expression than we ever had and I think in many cases this has backfired.

I think you could be right Falconbird and that maybe it is a generational thing.

I had a very difficult relationship with my m.i.l. for several years and it never entered my head to prevent her from seeing our children, her grandchildren, or to come between my husband and his mother. We are now, I'm pleased to say very close and I love her dearly. At the time, when the difficulties in our relationship were so hard to deal with, I'd never have envisaged being as close to her as I am now, and loving her the way I do.

I don't think a sense of duty is as strong as it once was. Like you, we raised our children to have more freedom of expression than we were afforded. We also taught them the importance of love, tolerance, compassion, understanding and loyalty. Perhaps it isn't the freedom to express that's backfired but what at times is chosen too express, and sometimes actions speak louder than words don't they.

I'm pleased that you are once again in contact with the son who'd cut you out of his life, but sad that there remains a distance between you and that on the rare occasions you see him, you can't mention his brothers.

Hopefully the relationship will continue to improve and strengthen over time. You said he contacted you again when his child was born. Our estranged son and father to our only grandchild is to be a father again. They continue to live just 400 yards down the road so this will be another grandchild we will never know despite the close proximity of our homes; his brother in Aus. broke the news a few days ago.

Smileless I'm so sorry to hear about your estranged son. It's very hard to bear especially as you must see him sometimes in passing as you live so close.

Are you ever tempted to go to their door and knock - or would that just make matters worse.

I'm glad you now have a good relationship with your mil and I'm sure she really appreciates you now, in her later years.

My son who was estranged was merciless towards me. My husband/ his dad had only been gone for about two months when he turned on me and said some hateful things and I still don't really know why and that's the truth. People say it was a grief reaction...

He had just moved house, but I managed to find out where he lived and sent him lots of kind letters, texts and even postcards. They were met with a stony silence although he knew I would be in great distress. He even refused to come to the scattering of his dad's ashes.

Before he went silent he said "It's all about you isn't it."

I'm delighted he's back in touch but it will be years before I can trust him again.

I think your a saint, veexox. I wouldn't have let this woman anywhere near my babies. But then I'm not very forgiving.

I'm not sure if I'd ever be able to trust my son again, not completely Falconbird. Trust is such an important part of relationships I'm not sure, that once lost, it can ever be totally regained.

To go and knock on their door would be viewed as a declaration of war. Just a few weeks ago we were coming back from a walk, passed their house and our son was outside with our GC. He smiled at me so I said 'hello', he responded and it was the first and only conversation I've ever had with him, albeit a very brief one.

Our ES didn't say anything but our d.i.l. opened the door, told our little GC in an angry voice to 'get in now' as she grabbed him by the arm and pulled him inside. As we were walking away our ES yelled after us 'just leave him alone' as he was shaking his fist at us. All that for simply talking to my GC, he didn't know who I was he was just being a chatty and friendly little 3 year old.

You must be delighted to have your son back, I hope that your relationship continues to strengthen and that the trust you've lost comes back too.

If veevox says that her mil wants to play mummy, then who is to say that that is not true?

veevox. Did you mil spoil you son when he was a child, or did she bring him up normally?

You know what, soon? I think you are right, and it seems MiL might have learned something!

Smileless - I don't trust my youngest son at all. He called me names - which I can't write down here - after his dad died.

I'm pretty resilient but he nearly caused me to have a breakdown.

Your Dil sound really awful but I think your GC knows who you are. Children can be really perceptive.

My youngest son is really a little b------. His older brother became ill with cancer not long after my DH passed away. I appealed to my youngest son by letter to wish his brother well.

He replied that his brother was no longer part of his life.

My youngest son was a difficult child but he had a kind and caring nature. I don't really like him anymore but of course I love him - that's the difficult part.

Oh Falconbird I know just what you mean. My ES has told some really terrible lies about me which like you, I couldn't repeat here. To begin with he supported his wife's lies before making up his own.

Like you, I'm pretty resilient but this has totally flawed me and in the early days I honestly didn't think I'd be able to cope. When I look back to the state I was in I honestly don't know how I did.

You really have been through so much. I was horrified to read that your son didn't wish his brother well when he learned he had cancer. I hope he's doing well and his health has improved.

Our ES, the youngest, was never any trouble when he was a child, quite the opposite in fact. Now his brother, what a handful that boy was and sometimes still is. Both were kind and loving, and he still is thank goodness but I don't know our youngest anymore and I'm beginning to wonder if I ever did.

He's not a very nice person now but like you with yours, we love him and try to remember how he used to be and not spend too much time dwelling on the person he's become.

"no longer a part of his life" I have a hand written note pushed through our letter box two Christmas Eve's ago "you are no longer a part of mine or (our gc's name) lives". What on earth has happened to our children?

OMG smiless - You know just two and a half years ago I wouldn't have been able to comprehend the cruelty of grown up children,

I used to really like my sons, but now I often don't.

I love them of course but I'm often defeated by their coldness towards me since my DH passed away.

I see mums with their lovely little babies and I can't help thinking "please God let them grow up to be kind towards their parents."

My sons were all really loving kiddies and I did my absolute best for them. I wasn't a saint - who is but I was a good mum.

My mother was often really horrible to me, but she was my mum and I stayed with her until the end. I could see she was lonely and bewildered after my dad died and I always kept that in mind.

The GC are a real gift and I really HOPE you can get to know your little GS who lives so close to you.

I have been estranged for nearly a year and the pain is unbearable as there is no way this can be resolved now. My DIL,s mother, for unknown reason, told terrible lies to my son about me, and he believes her. So I don't stand a chance as have been so betrayed by him that all respect I had for him is destroyed. And he won't allow me to defend myself, although I have tried every way to heal this he won't listen, and my 8 yr old granddaughter is kept away from me, even though since she was a baby I have been constantly involved with her.

I'm so sorry chrcol. Lies are terrible and do untold damage. My d.i.l. began her campaign to get us out of their lives be lying to our ES about me.

To begin with, he wasn't taken in and would tell her she must be mistaken, but after a while he began to believe her. All of a sudden he believed every single world that came out of her mouth and we had suddenly become the world's biggest liars. When I pointed this out to him
before he finally 'cut us out' he had no response, just looked at me.

Eventually, not being content with propagating her lies, he started to make up some of his own. I can only assume it was a rather desperate attempt to justify his appalling decision to cut us out of his and our GC's life.

Our ES hasn't given me the opportunity to defend myself either, well not as far as own lies are concerned in fact he's never actually repeated them to me, choosing to lie to his father, brother and friends, some who believe him and some who don't. I'm sure this is because of course he knows he's lied and isn't prepared to do so to my face. I can't help but wonder if this is why your son hasn't allowed you to defend yourself, because he knows in his heart that his m.i.l. is a liar.

It beggars belief doesn't it, that our children who've known us their entire lives can be duped into such cruel and vindictive behaviour toward their own parents.

Dear Falconbird I'm still trying to get my head around your sons turning their backs on you following the death of your husband; their own father. In the past 2.5 years I've read some heartbreaking cases and yours is one of the worst I've encountered.

I do a similar thing, I see young men who are my ES's age and I look at them and wonder 'do you love your mum and dad?' I do hope so because this is the worst thing any child could ever do to their parents.

for you both. I don't remember seeing you post before chrcol I do hope you find the comfort and support you need and deserve. It's not easy sharing such a painful story, especially for the first time.

I sometimes wonder whether there are some people who believe the person who talks to the most to them.
I know someone, who if x bends their ear, they start believing them. Then if they spend enough time in y's company instead, they then start to believe y. I find it all most odd. But I dont think that it is that unusual.

You're absolutely right soontobe. When we were still able to talk to our ES, we would always be able to sort things out. He would come to our home, we'd talk and when he left we would hug each other and tell him how much we love him and we would do the same. Then he'd go home to her and it would begin all over again.

It is odd, very odd indeed when some one can turn your own child against you and destroy the relationship you once had. If it hadn't happened to us I don't think I'd have been able to believe it possible.

Just to put the record straight it is my youngest son who turned his back on me.

For a whole year I heard nothing from him and it was like a double bereavement.

The older two can be distant and cold at times, but they did stand by me although they both have lost all contact with their youngest brother and don't want to reconnect with him.

I have to remember that the two eldest have also lost a dad and a brother and can't be thinking of me all the time as they have their own grief.

I am slowly working towards restoring some normality and there is a light at the end of the tunnel albeit rather a flickering one.

That old rhyme - 'Your son's your son till he gets him a wife, but your daughter's your daughter for the rest of your life' springs to mind reading this.

Not true with my daughter Jane

Nor mine!
Sorry for your sad stories , my estrangement is due to lives too

Lies

Sorry everyone! It just seemed to be sons that people complain of more.