ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Sorry, yogagirl but how does asking your D to behave as badly as SiL further your request to see the children? It comes across as hurtful retaliation.

Hello Saturnvista, it's good to hear from younger mums enters. I sometimes visit mumsnet and find some of the discussions combative but well informed. I agree with you that estrangements have a back story. Difficulties arise and conflicts can become irresolvable when the people see their shared history very differently.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

On the contrary, Yogagirl. That yearning, empty gap in my life that I experienced comes rushing back when I hear about any other loving grandparent living in that situation, no matter how temporary, but when something crops up that indicates an olive branch could be offered or a shift in attitude could enable a different perspective to be taken, I think it's worth considering. Please read what you wrote again before I posted - you appear to have said that you did in fact email your D and make those comments.

I hope your awful situation does end soon, and that of the other grans posting on here.

It wasn't when herself who asked for Yogagirl's post to be deleted.

Yes you're right Iam64 and even more so when a shared history is re written to the extent that it bares absolutely no resemblance to the truth.

When we learned a couple of months ago that our EDIL was pregnant again we considered reaching out to our ES once again. This was also suggested to us by our DS but when we said we believed it would be deliberately misconstrued and seen as us only doing so because a new baby was on the way, our DS conceded that that was a distinct possibility. So we've decided to leave well alone.

A difficult decision after much soul searching but the effects on our physical and mental well being of this estrangement have been really quite frightening. We are in a better place now, stronger and happier than we've been for more than 2.5 years and reopening Pandora's box isn't a viable option. Letting go and moving on with our lives isn't easy but sadly it's the only realistic option we have.

Anno ??

Smileless I think, hard though that decision doubtless was, it was the right one.

Yes whenim64 I did email that to my estD, but I repeat it was not literal, because without doubt my nasty s.I.l wouldn't cut out his mum&dad sister & brother nannies & grandads, aunties & uncles or any of his friends as he got my poor EstD to do, so that's why I put it in an email to her, to lift the fog from her brain and see clearly for the first time since she's been with him those were my D's words when she came to stay with me after he booted her out of their family home & kept her from her babies, one not even his child! I said it to make her see what he was taking away from her ,her whole family & friends, he wouldn't dream of doing to his family & friends, not one, but he made her cut out her whole birth family everyone she used to love & that loved & adored her & her children, her once close, loving & protective family :'(
I haven't lost just my GS, I have lost my D&GD that I had a very special close & loving relationship with, as they lived with me before he came along, and also my S, same close & loving relationship. I had no problems with s.I.L before he cut me & the rest of our family out and had no idea he had a problem with me till he told me to "F* **F" This being after I pointed out my D would get custody of her C &her home, said to make him realise it wouldn't stay as he had it, with my D out & away from her C, this was said to get them back together not to separate them, but with those words he's hate jumped from my D to me, he took her back & cut me out!
I apologise to those hearing this story yet again, I'm as feed up telling it as I'm sure you are hearing it again, but when people get on their high horses, without any understanding!...

Don't apologise Yoga - I can understand why whenim64's post upset you. It came across as unfeeling and judgemental. It may not be how she intended it to sound, especially if she's been in a similar situation herself, at least I hope not.

Thank you Anya

My thanks too Anya for your understanding.

I totally understand why you sent that message to your ED Yogagirl. Our children have abandoned the majority of their own families for their partners, our ES now only has contact with his brother. I wanted to ask my ES what he thinks his wife would have done if he'd made the same request of her. 'I've cut my parents and most of my family out of my life and our child's life, now I want you to do the same to yours'.

It is not because we would have wanted her parents to suffer the way that we have, but to try and open his eyes to the magnitude of his actions. That was in the early days, when I believed there was still some hope for reconciliation; now all hope has gone.

Hear,Hear! smileless & Thank you xx

Strange I not noticed this thread.
I think in my sad case it is my s I law. My daughter and I were extremely close but we did fight have bit rows over trivia mainly but always made up. I didn't really get on well with her despite I adored her.

The hurt we feel in unimaginable and I would t wish it on my worst enemy.

I would do anything to try and build bridges and have written so many conciliatory letters cards, she has never ever responded.

It has gone on too long now over 6 years, 2. MOre Grandaughters born never seen. It breaks my heart to say I don't think it will ever be resolved and I will never get over it I just have to cope best I can.

I thank god for my lovely son and his family, wonderful husband and good friends life is still very much worthwhile. My twin brother has an adorable Gra daughter who we see a lot she lives near and her mum is same age as my daughter, it helps.

My daughter has cut her entire family out her brother, aunts uncles godparents all who loved her. I will never understand why.
Our little Grandaughter was only 9 months when we were cut off and I can't describe the sheer heartache of it all.

Nice to see you on this thread Celebgran and as you have said, we have all done everything under the sun to reconcile with our loved ones, taken away from us by their heartless, selfish partners and we have all done nothing to deserve this estrangement. So when someone comes on here saying;
" but when something crops up that indicates an olive branch could be offered or a shift in attitude could enable a different perspective to be taken, I think it's worth considering
It just beggers believe that someone can be so insensitive, thoughtless & ignorant to our plight & all that we've been through to put things right and heal our ones loving, close & supportive families.
You say you argued from time to time with your DD Celebgran well that is normal, we should be able to do that and just make-up afterwards and move on, so don't dwell on any silly little disagreements you had with your DD, we all know the cause of being cut out of our beloveds llives, as we know they wouldn't have done this on their own!

I think sometimes we can love " not wisely but too well"

Thank you yogagirl there is absolutely nothing I would t consider to heal the rift and I have written that to our daughter.

Stansgran my sister said to me when we received the letter cutting us out yes a letter with 2nd class Stamp all we were worth , she said your did so much for your daughter more than I could ever do for mine but it was. NEver never enough - food for thought.

We can do too much and it doenst always help. The cruellest thing is to alienate another human being ostracise and abandon them especially when that person is your parent.

My DS would agree with you Stansgranand our awful situation has shown me how right you are. My DS has said 2 things to me because of what's happened and you post has reminded me of them. He told me my greatest strength was my biggest weakness - I wear my heart on my sleeve and that I loved his brother too much.

Isn't it ironic how children who've been abused and/or had unhappy childhoods retain their relationship with their parents and some who were simply loved and had parents, not perfect, but who always did their best for them are discarded.

If any one is reading this thread, who doesn't get long with their partners parents' PLEASE don't allow what's happened to so many, happen to them too. You don't have to see them, you don't have to leave them alone with your own children and you don't have too break their hearts, and contribute too or as in some cases orchestrate an insurmountable rift in their relationship with their child. Look at your own children and try to imagine how you would feel if they turned away from you because the person they'd decided to be with, just didn't want you around.

Perhaps you think it could never happen to you but can anyone be immune to this 'silent epidemic'? We never thought it could happen to us, but it has.
Think about the example you're setting for your own children and think about what you're denying them.

I have joined Gransnet today, purely to post on this thread.

I will try to keep it all factual, whilst knowing that many reading will be fully aware of my heartbreak.

I have two sons, neither of whom have lived at home since they left for University at the age of eighteen. That said, we have always been very very close, and they came home regularly. They have both travelled extensively, had relationships but never committed, seeming to prefer building up good careers for themselves.

I was widowed in 2001, and they were absolute rocks for me. I must stress that I have always been a strong person, and whilst I appreciated all they did, I never had any expectations. In fact, I used to worry that they still weren't settling down.

Fast forward to 2007, and I was absolutely thrilled that they both started relationships that were obviously going to be permanent. I so looked forward to having daughters to love and spoil. The reality, however, was somewhat different. Over time, and despite my every effort, I met with coldness, one DIL more so than the other, but neither showed any desire to have any contact with me. As they all live long distances from me, this was easy for them. I was bewildered, but I saw my sons regularly, so had to accept it.

Now the part that I just can't accept. By some strange coincidence - this always sees to happen with my two lads! - they both became fathers to gorgeous little girls in 2013, eleven days apart. I was overjoyed, and happily spent a fortune on prams, cots...oh everything that Mamas and Papas sold.

Almost two years on, and I have seen one granddaughter once, and the other one twice. My sons make arrangements to either visit me, or me to visit them, and without fail, it gets cancelled just days before. I have lost money several times, having pre-booked trains. I know this isn't coming from my sons, they are in regular contact with me, calling, emailing and texting. I have now given up. They are both aware that I know the score, but I have been adamant that they do nothing. I will not put their marriages in jeopardy, so the elephant stays in the room.

I was rushed into hospital recently, and had a very long stay. Both sons came regularly. I didn't get so much as a card or a text from their wives. That really truly hurt, but it also made me realise that I had to finally give up, for the sake of my own health.

I am sorry for the long epistle, and thank you if you got this far. If anyone can tell me where I went wrong, or what I can do, I will take it on board.

As I said, I have not really touched on how I feel, but suffice to say I would not wish this pain on anyone.

So very sorry to hear your sad tale Eliana I know you must be hurting a lot in not seeing your beloved granddaughters, at least you are still on good terms with your two Sons, even though you don't see too much of them. It is very selfish of their wives not to let you see anything of your GDs, such a terrible shame and no doubt the wives family spend time with them all. The only ones who can sort this is your Sons. You are doing the right thing in holding your tongue, but at the same time you must let them know how much you're hurting. Perhaps a letter to both couples saying how you feel but being very careful & diplomatic what you say, so as not to offend. I wish you luck & I'm sure the others on here will have some wise words to offer you. Take care xx

An all too familiar and heart breaking account Eliana. It is good that you are in regular contact with your sons and as Yogagirl has said, it is only they who can do something about your forced estrangement from your grand daughters.

I simply cannot understand why there seem to be so many d's.i.l. and s's.i.l. who only want their family to be involved and deny their children their other set of grandparents. I don't wish to offend but I don't know how your sons, my son, Yogagirl's daughter and so many other children can simply sit back and let their parents be treated so badly. What does it say for their marriages when they have to turn their backs on their own families to appease their spouses.

Smileless you are totally right. How can my daughter buy a card for her f I law on Father's Day and ignore her lovley dad?

Eliana so sorry to hear your lack of contract with Grandaughters, it is heartbreaking. Please try hard not to fall our with your so s over it.
It does see. Strange that they don't recognise the upset it would cause you.
Have you tried carefully mentioning it?

Thanks everyone. It does help to get everything written down.

I realised on re-reading my post that, in my efforts not to make waves, I have actually given my sons an out. I have been really really adamant that they say nothing that will cause them problems, so really I can't exactly be surprised that they don't.

The fact that both of my daughters-in-law treat me this way - and don't really know each other so they're not comparing notes - makes me think that they just see me as unimportant in their lives. Also the geographical distance doesn't help. That said, their own families figure very heavily in their lives, one of whom lives in another country, but gets regular visits.

Morning girls
Another 'Hot,Hot'Hot' one!
Wish you well Eliana hope you can sort it & get to see your GDs, you will have to get your Sons to speak to their wives or it will just stay as it is, you were very good in insisting your Sons didn't bring the subject up in the beginning, but now it's time to talk. Good luck, we are all behind you
Completely agree with you smileless regarding a marriage where one half of the family has to be cut out to please the other. When I saw that lovely mediator Lyndsey, when this first began, she said "their marriage won't last, it may take 5yrs, but eventually he will go one stage too far & she will say 'enough!' " At the time I thought 5yrs!! but now only 2.5 months to go.
Well I've taken down the beautiful picture in the hallway, just the hook sitting in the wall, which I think is very symbolic, and the one in the silver frame on my harth. :'( :'(

Yoga girl still have pic of me Gra and mollie on display and one of me and her inc enlarged on in our bedroom I think I always will mollie is deep in my heart despite accepting she not in my life.

You have. we grandchild due maybe different as you can focus on that?!
Had amazing day out with. Y best friends club Gra came too with her husband just we melting coach was not air conditioned !

Above should read years, unfortunately or is that fortunately, not months.
No Celebgran I put the pictures away because they are too painful to look at all the time, not for any other reason and getting a new granddaughter will not diminish my love for Laila & Jack nor take away tthe pain of lossing them! I think about them from the moment I wake till the moment I go to bed! My neighbour had her little GS in the garden with her today, splashing around in their pool having a wonderful time together, she has him a couple times per week and he & his mum are always popping in, even though my neighbours son & her are not together anymore. The little boy is the same age as I've been cut out of my precious GC lives! So to hear their happiness together is truly bitter sweet.
My ND says to me that she knows her baby won't take the place of Laila but she hopes baby will ease the pain of being apart and of course I will love her with all of my heart & soul too & I can't wait for her to arrive, but nothing changes my feelings in lossing my beloved Laila & Jack :'(