ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Celebran " to go from crazing my life out to drive see her when her dad was at work, to cutting me off completely and saying it is all my fault I am violent and aggressive."

From this I take, her dad is the problem and she didn't want to see him? How were you violent and aggressive, has that been address in the CO?

Redheaded Mommy

,, ..but toxic people aren't normal. You can't talk or get your side across

I absolutely get that and it describes my son's partner exactly. DH and I have been accused of doing, saying and even thinking things we never did, said or thought.
Our best 'defence' is to stay behind the barricades and enjoy a peaceful existence.

She probably describes us as toxic - God knows...

My son facilitates visis from our DGS

It has been 27 years for me now, first with my children and now with my grandchildren. One who is 3 years old who I have never met.

There is A Lobby Day in parliament today as I write and plenty of information on my website regarding alienation and estrangement.

parentalalienation-pas.com

Would love to hear your stories

I absolutely get that and it describes my son's partner exactly. DH and I have been accused of doing, saying and even thinking things we never did, said or thought.
Our best 'defence' is to stay behind the barricades and enjoy a peaceful existence.

Could of wrote that myself. You start thinking 'have I said that? Did we do that?' And you second guess yourself or thinking you're going mad.
For example she would keep cancelling when we would see her for generic reasons (weekly) then would start an argument with DH that she doesn't see DD, when DH said she should stop cancelling she blamed him that he wasn't accommodating enough to her needs. She wanted us to keep our whole weeks free so she could decide when she wanted to see us and she wanted picking up and taking home when was best for her. She lives local and is under 50.
DH worked Full time and I had a life. She couldn't understand why we couldn't do it and was accused to trying to keep her out of DDs life. Thats the kind of thing you think is your fault at the time, then when you mention it in normal conversation to friends you are greeted by this face and you start to realise things are far from normal.

Arasbra I have never been violent and aggressive i am 62 and have never ever hurt anyone that is why the accusations were so unfounded and cruel bad enough to cut us off from adored grandchild without lies, her dad isn't the problem u completely misunderstood the reason she crazed me to cope with drive was so I could visit More often not just when her dad could take me.? Do your U understand now?

We can only presume because we were and still are concerned s i law doesn't work hard to provide he comes from a benefits culture,unlike our,family his father is back on benenfits despitr 2 doctors certifying him fit to work we gather s i law took strong dislike to us but he didn't appear to on surface.

Celebgran " her dad isn't the problem u completely misunderstood the reason she crazed me to cope with drive was so I could visit More often not just when her dad could take me.? Do your U understand now?"

You're complaining about motoring over and need OH to take you? Is that what you're saying? You're 62 and want a driver?

"We can only presume because we were and still are concerned s i law doesn't work hard to provide he comes from a benefits culture,unlike our,family his father is back on benenfits despitr 2 doctors certifying him fit to work we gather s i law took strong dislike to us but he didn't appear to on surface."

SILs family is different and you are concerned of his ability to provide? Methinks you know too much about SIL. His father and benefits is not your affair. You know too much.

Opinion only.

Arrivea whoever You are I resent your opinionated comments

What I do know is we were asked for money,so that made it our business,

Whoever Do u think u,are to make such ridiculous agressive comments,??!

It is absolutely none of your business but it was over 40 miles on a difficult motorway and crossing a difficult bridge which was a challenge for me which my daughter was determined I overcame it to Ben able to visit,

When my s i law failed to provide for my daughter and even after being seriously ill she had to return to work before fit most caring mothers would,be concerned,

She married into a different culture,her dad and inave always worked likewise her grandparents we don't believe in sponging off the state i sounds like u do?

Are your U a mother or grandmother or just a bored troublemaker ?

A grandmother wondering if some of these "problems" are self inflicted.

Celebgran

There has been talk on this thread of Toxic people. Toxic people attempt to make others feel bad about themselves. Toxic people often post contentious comments on these type of threads under the guise of their comments being 'thought-provoking' - which, of course, is total crap nonsense. They see people in pain and, for reasons best known to themselves, like to put a 'gentle' boot in.

Do you see where I'm going with this, Celeb???

Remember the trouble it caused on another thread, and it was decided to ignore them until they went off to 'play' elsewhere?

To whom it may concern: I'm a grandmother too. I'm not estranged from AC or DGS but I have a heart, I understand that estrangements happen to others and I can empathise. It costs nothing.

to all those estranged from loved ones.

Some moms and dads are right fighters and have never done anything wrong. See where I'm going with this?

Thanks fairydoll I think u so very sensible ignore is best policy???

Yes toxic fits the bill totally for the postis by arraba whatever her issues let her go be toxic elsewhere.

Fairydoll

Brilliant.

The sense of toxic entitlement to EC lives is incredibly disgusting.

????????

You have always been caring and supportive of those estranged from their AC and GC Fairydoll and it is always greatly appreciated.

Could it just be that the two DIL's have vastly different personalities?
could it be, rather than always blaming DILs, that you may consider that just because 2 children were raised in the same house, does not mean that they had the exact same childhood, so once child being fine with their parents does not necessarily discredit another child who is not.

The reason why a lot of people go NC when they meet long term partners is not necessarily because their mean partner for some unknown reason just wants them to cut contact

It is often because, joining your ILs family shows you that families don't have to be disfunctional and hurtful. Which can highlight how f*cked up your own family actually is, and makes you re-consider if its worth the pain

It can be that having a witness to events with your own family at family dos where your partner is present can help you to stop doubting yourself when you are told that upsetting things either didn't happen, or didn't happen "that way" - now you have someone to ask "am I imaging it?" "do you think I'm over-reacting"

Or just simply, having a loving partner, can show you that love doesn't have to hurt. Love that hurts is not love worth having. You may have been raised to believe that the way your family "loves" is normal and that all families can be hurtful, and having a healthy relationship can help you to grow and learn that that is not the case.

Another catalyst is having your own children, suddenly you cannot imagine treating or speaking to your own children the way your parents treated you. Before having your own children you excuse them, imagining that you may struggle to be a decent parent yourself when the time comes, but then you have kids and your instincts kick in and you can no longer excuse how your parents were.

Notanan in our case then not only ourmed parent, and brother would have to be wrong her entire family including loving godparents who used mean world to her, it doesn't add up.

My counsellor (am having cbt therapy in hope of accepting finality of loss and learning to live with it minimising horrendous hurt) says if I didn't have such good relationships with others i.e. My son and dear nephew wife and family's it would be easier to understand where fault lies.

For some reason s I law wants all my daughters friends and family out of picture.
She has gone along with it leaving us helpless.

My dear son partner is exactly opposite and says how lucky she feels having us in her life. Boy does that help.

says if I didn't have such good relationships with others i.e. My son and dear nephew wife and family's it would be easier to understand where fault lies

I don't believe this at all - I'm not talking about your situation specifically, but in general, no I don't buy this

I think there are many people who maintain lots of relationship but have been unkind to other individuals

People who have been damaging to others aren't always nasty to everyone all the time necessarily like some sort of cartoon charcature of a bad guy!

It's a bit like if you send your food back to the kitchen in a restraurant because it's cold, and the waiter/manager says "well nobody else has complained"

so what? that doesn't mean my food isn't cold!

(& IMO anyone who responds to one ACs upset with "well your brother/sister doesn't think so" has half answered why their AC may feel unable to resolve anything with them)

to explain again because, it seems, I have to ....

Could it just be that the two DIL's have vastly different personalities?

So, two AC ( Males!) from the same family marry. Let's call their wives X and Y
X gets on well with her her MIL and FIL. Y doesn't. She doesn't like them. She's not used to close families and it makes her uncomfortable.
For whatever reason she decides to cut them out of her life. She decides to deny access to the grandchildren. She resents husband being in touch with his parents because (as you will remember,), she doesnt like them.
She makes husbands life a misery. For the sake of keeping a decent atmosphere at home and for his own sanity, he distances himself from his parents.
We then have a situation where the GP's enjoy a good relationship,with one part of the family but end up being cut off from the other.

Could it be just be that wife X has a different personality to Y ?
X may be more self assured and confident and may have come from a loving family herself so slots in well with her acquired family. Could it be that Y hasn't had the advantage of a loving family, she has a bit of a chip on her shoulder, and she resents husbands closeness with his family? The scene is then set...

Sorry but I don't know enough words of one syllable to explain myself. It should be bleedin' obvious. It has absolutely nothing to with the AC's upbringing.

Going to lie down in a darkened room...

Could it be that X likes her MIL because Xs husband tells her about his happy childhood, and Y doesn't because Ys husband tells her about his unhappy childhood, and Y and her husband don't want the same sort of nonsense for their own children?

Very often people offload to their partners, maybe Y's partner offloads to her about his family issues and she is just defensive/supportive of him?

Just because X likes her MIL, doesn't mean that Y is unreasonable not to.

If your DH regularly told you how horrible someone was to them, would you find it easy to like them?

The correlation between a DIL coming on the scene and a NC decision doesn't always equal a causation!

Maybe for the AC, having his partner Y in his life meant having someone who believed and supported him. Maybe that gave him the strenght to say and do things he'ld always thought and wanted to say, but never had the strength to act on before.

Still talking generally and not on specific cases, but can't you see how the arrival of a long term partner can often only be the catalyst and not the cause?