ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

What would you like to know about my BIL? Clarity on what bit?

Plenty of posters dislike American cheese and find Americans round and lacking in a good walk. BMI UK to America?

As you have aired your views (your point of reference) of GP's estrangement based on your BIL's AC's relarionship (!), where presumably estrangement has been an issue, perhaps you would like to recount some of the details here so that the estranged GP's in pain can see you're not posting a load of unadulterated nonsense and do in fact have some experience of the subject.

Like I said - reminds me of the vultures I saw earlier.

My BIL and his wife are determined to be in the life of their child and GC to the extent that they won't leave well enough alone after being asked many times. BIL has recounted this little story to OH many times. But you're correct, it doesn't affect me directly.

I think there are very few parents/grandparents who consider themselves perfect and when estrangement happens, hardly any who automatically put the blame on the other party. The first thing most of us do is to try to work where we went wrong - and we are very willing to make changes to put things right. The problem is that the other party often has no interest in putting things right and wants estrangement to continue - not because the relationship was damaging - it just suits them better not to have contact with their inlaws - often because they are jealous of the relationship their partner has with his parents. When it happened to me, the first thing I did was to ask 2 well trusted friends to be totally honest with me and tell me what I had done wrong so that I could change - they were as baffled as I was.

And because it doesn't affect you directly you are not talking from personal experience yet you have the temerity to repeatedly blame all GP's for the estrangement situations they find themselves in.

Presumably then, if the GP's you're referring too have been denied all contact with the GC, you think their determination to be a part of their GC's life is a justified reason for their exclusion.

FairydollI know we shouldn't feed trolls, if that's what they are, but I just can't resist it. It's much more fun than banging my head against a brick wall or driving a nail through my hand.

I find it rather amusing just how much of our posts are completely ignored because they have no reasoned response to make.

I would advance the idea that "jealousy" and "magic bits" are notions that are seriously over used. You didn't say magic, I did because it's an oft used excuse, not vulgarity.

A familiar experience for many of us eddiecat; both family and friends totally baffled as to how and why our once close and loving relationship could be totally destroyed. Even some of our ES's friends find the entire thing bewildering.

Oh, so you got the 'story' second hand from your OH. It wasn't even told directly to you from the people concerned. You've no actual personal experience of estrangement and yet you post your entrenched views here.

That explains everything...

Only you and Bibbity b mention 'magic bits'

Smiles .

Yeah, beginning to see what you mean about fun!

Would love to linger longer here but I shall be 'estranged' from DH if I stay on GN much longer this evening - we're supposed to be relaxing on holiday!

Well that's understandable Fairydoll; don't come on again until tomorrow.

Troll the trolls - way to go!

I fail to see how in relation to this topic you can make a comparison with friendships and casual sexual relationships.

Really, I thought I made it quite clear what area of relationships I was refering to in the comparison - the break-up!

Break ups do not have to be mutual to be valid
The person doing the break-ups point of view is not invalid just because the person they're breaking up with doesn't want to break up
etc…

I think there are very few parents/grandparents who consider themselves perfect and when estrangement happens, hardly any who automatically put the blame on the other party. The first thing most of us do is to try to work where we went wrong - and we are very willing to make changes to put things right. The problem is that the other party often has no interest in putting things right and wants estrangement to continue - not because the relationship was damaging - it just suits them better not to have contact with their inlaws - often because they are jealous of the relationship their partner has with his parents. When it happened to me, the first thing I did was to ask 2 well trusted friends to be totally honest with me and tell me what I had done wrong so that I could change - they were as baffled as I was.

Eddiecat sorry I had to copy your post because it is so exactly how it was for me!

My very best friend who used to get exasperated when my daughter rang each time we went outmwas cross that I kept sending sorry cards she said I would tell you if you had do e something wrong.
I think the idea s imlaw was jealous,of,our relationship is quite likely
Who knows but he got his way and now our daughter has no one.

well whenever anyone is dumped (from any relationship) their friends do tend to say "nooo, it's not you" don't they?. That doesn't mean that the other person should have stayed in a relationship with them.

Notanan - I don`t understand what you mean about break ups being valid or invalid? Do you mean that some break-ups are justified? To a degree that is true- maybe someone should not stay in a relationship if it makes them unhappy - but does that mean they also have the right to take their young children out of that relationship? In almost all cases those children are in no danger from their grandparents and have often enjoyed a close and loving relationship with them before the parent decides it should stop.

My BIL and his wife do believe that they should see their GC without the parents. They have no comprehension as to why they are wrong to try to split up a family.

What I mean is that the person who is walking away isn't by default "Wrong" just because the person being walked away from and their friends don't think they're at fault.

Relationships can be worthless without extremes of abuse or blame. Some people just don't gel in a worthwhile way. Sometimes those people are related.

& I think it is wrong to role model to children that you should stay in relationships that are not positive.

but what if the child`s own relationship IS positive. Wouldn`t you agree that it is wrong to force a child to have the same opinion as your`s

I don't think a child can have a truely possitive experience with individual adults whilst witnessing an unhealthy relationship between those adults.

E.g. a married couple who stay together "for the children" but it eat away at them.. I don't think the child in the midst of that is going to have a great experience of either adult.

& I think there are cases where the benefits to a child of having parents who aren't drained from being entangled with draining family nonsense might outweigh any benefits of seeing grandparents.

Parents parent better when not running on empty because of family drama - in that way I think that an estrangement can benefit GCs overall - when you consider the whole picture!

Notanan u do post some rubbish

Families are always complex no one is palin sailing all the time in the real world.

It is enormously damaging when parents slip up we have evidence with our sons step children,

Likewise studies show grandparents are very Beneficial to children, we have the time and are a step apart from the everyday trauma of bringing little ones up.
We have more patience and are less pressured.
I don't think parents always think of best interests of the child their own issues are more important to them.

parent staying in a marraige that has broken down is far more damaging than splitting up, that is not to say that splitting up is benign, it is however the lesser of two evils.

Nobody is saying that families should be perfect, but the bad should not outweigh the good

In isolation, a relationship with a GP is a good thing, however looking at the bigger picture, there may be circumstances where having the GP around is causeing so much stress to the whole family unit of the child's immediate care givers, that the benefits of NC outweight the loss of the GP relationship.

it's idiotic to think that a GP and a GC can have a good relationship in a little bubble when the GPs are causing many other problems to the child's immediate family.

That is not a worthwhile relationship. It would be a selfish one way relationship from the GPs point of view, if the truely cared for the GC they wouldn't want to be causing problems for their GCs main carers (which will effect the GKs by stressing out the whole immediate family unit) just for the sake of time with their GKs.

GPS in normal functional families are of enourmous benefit to their GCs