Hijab

^No, DJ, repeating their rubbish only flatters them and disseminates their lies. It does not make it OK to bring their cr*p to a wider audience , adding "oh how dreadful is this" . There is a reason I don't read the gutter press or "follow" certain people/groups on Twitter.*I do not want to listen to/read their tripe*
End of.
(So please don't quote them at me, not without a health warning)^

I don't see how this can be construed as an "attack". OK my last sentence, is presumably what you object to. but that was not directed at any one person, just people in general.

I totally fail to see where you are coming from here, and if another poster wishes to draw attention to vitriol in the media, I would prefer, as I said, not to hear it second or third hand, as I said " repeating their rubbish".
Now any chance you could calm down and stop over reacting ?

wow, THAT was an over reaction- you should calm down dear...take your own medicine so to speak.

Who are you to decide what rubbish is? Just ignore facts about a small but far too significant % of the British people (and mine, and all over Europe and USA too, yes I know)- if you wish- but don't call it rubbish because you choose not to look at the world as it is.

I truly hate to say this, but this is waht happened in 1930s Germany- people didn't want to see, didn't want to face what was happening. The rise of the far right all over Europe and the USA has to be faced- somehow- ignoring it won't make it go away- and could make ti grow and grow.

Perhaps you should have actually read the DM article(s) granjura, before you made your derogatory original comment.

About the Sun, I have no idea - did you read that too?

And as for the 'calm down dear' comment, that wasn't even directed at you...

Genuine question here - why do you dislike the hijab Notooold and Mariann?

I struggle with the social constructs (as I see it) that influence women to wear a niqab but if I take a breath and get a grip on my western/feminist/judgemental bits, I can just about accept some of the reasons given. I haven't found it a barrier to friendliness around town but as I've acknowledged I'm not comfortable with the notion that women's bodies are so inflammatory to men, that they have to be totally covered.
I can see similar arguments with hair covering but it's also clear around here, that niqab's have developed into fashion statements. My husband uses the train a lot during peak periods when students are travelling into the city to our 4 universities. He says he's entertained by the skin tight jeans, high heels, elaborate eye make up alongside the niqab. As the father of 3 daughters he reckons these girls can say to their dad that they're following his expectation and covering their hair……

I truly hate to say this, but this is waht happened in 1930s Germany- people didn't want to see, didn't want to face what was happening. The rise of the far right all over Europe and the USA has to be faced- somehow- ignoring it won't make it go away- and could make ti grow and grow

That is truly unpleasant. Sorry, but it is.

In fact, I think Switzerland has to take a hard look at itself.

*Iam64^
As the father of 3 daughters he reckons these girls can say to their dad that they're following his expectation and covering their hair……

That reminds me of that BBC programme Citizen Khan (hilarious!).

iam64 I am totally with you on this one.

They could cover their hair by just wearing a hijab.

Ana, you got me there - I meant Hijab is a fashion statement, not the niqab. Sorry for that, it's been a busy day.
Our local pharmacist is a stunning looking young British Pakistani Muslim woman, she couldn't be more helpful or well informed. She wears a different Hijab every day, which frames her very lovely face - and yes, the skin tight jeans, oodles of make up, its a real conundrum
It's a pity we don't seem to have any women from that background on gransnet to broaden our discussions but at least we can talk about these things in cyber space.

I've just said so, haven't I:

Just ignore facts about a small but far too significant % of the British people (and mine, and all over Europe and USA too, yes I know)

No I haven't read the Sun or the Daily Mail recently- but saw some quotes and comments from readers, etc.

Ana- Alea comes guns all blazing and really nasty at DJ- and tells HER to calm down. Totally out of order, and I said so.

The rise of the far right is all over Europe and seriously worrying and yes, does have many parrallels with the 1930s- and not just in the UK as made very clear and plain. Ignoring this is dangerous.

Guns blazing, really nasty?

Who? what?where?
I'm all for people minding their buddies' backs, but wow!

I discern a certain absence of perspective, an element of posturing and a degree of self justification.
Now I must go and do my penance for believing all that you said GJ about The Sun and the Daily Mail and perhaps heed what others have said about a much more balanced account (in the DM at least).
Mea culpa for interpreting shame oh shame on the Daily Mail and the Sun -the gutter press as pejorative, not that anybody would ever have guessed you were not rubbishing disparaging those particular tabloids.

You will continue to deliberately interpret what I am saying (apart from the Sun and Daily Wail, I was disparing there and no regret- I've seen enough in 39 years to give ma a good idea, thanks).

I've said, several times, that the UK is probaly overall a lot less racist than most of Europe, that the support given on social media to Aniya has been wonderful and heartwarming- and that the rise of the far right, in the whole of Europe, is seriously worrying and does have overtones of 1930s Germany. Pick as you wish, and I'll leave you to it.

BTW there is one right-wing party in Switzerland, called SVP in German and UDC in French- not nice people I have to say- but there are no groupings like EDL- NF, BritainFirst or LibertyGB- and I am glad for this. But racism does exist here too- some aimed at Anglo-Saxon expat who live parrallel lives here on very high salaries, and never integrate, live in 'ghettos' among themselves and never learn the language, and go to their own Churches and clubs, and have their own Private schools, etc. Many are not like that btw, but they don't help.

But you should calm down, truly.

And to conclude, hurrah and well done again to Aniya- the most lovely woman and mum, and the best baker on the programme. And for me, she can wear a hijab to her heart's content, and it is none of mine, or yours, business or to comment on. Her choice- keep baking. Proud to see all the amazing 1000s of comments on FB and other social media- she has stirred the hearts of so many and made others re-thinki. Brilliant.

Nadiya

but saw some quotes and comments from readers, etc
before you go to sleep granjura I think some of the online comments are from nasty weirdos people who hijack articles for their own ends - it attracts, what do you call them, trolls. Nothing really to do with the article, just horrible. Not that I have read any of them myself this time in fact - cba.

I agree totally with your last post, so do most people and - so does the DM!!

As far as I can tell, I am perfectly calm, chilled, in control of my spelling emotions and aware of Nadiya's name

How gracious of granjura to say Nadiya may wear her hijab to her heart's content - even although that does sound grudging - I am sure it means a lot to her. Of course further discussion is now off limits
and it is none of mine (my?) your(s) business or to comment on

Everybody clear on that? (I always thought it was Nadiya's business anyway, but nice to have it corroborated)

Eh! Eh! Alright! Alright! Calm down! Calm down!

Oh, you are calm, sorry, it's all them others

Posturing?? I thought she was just being herself - in as much as anyone can be when being filmed.
As to the scarves, when I taught English to women of all ages a few years ago two (from different countries) only had their eyes showing. In the room where I taught them both (without being asked) flipped down the fabric covering their lower faces. They flipped it up again when leaving and one did when a man unexpectedly came in to measure a window for a new frame. After I'd got to know them I asked their reasons for wearing them, the married Saudi woman in her 30s said she preferred it. The single Pakistani teenager said it was not her father but her older brothers who insisted she covered her face. She seemed unconcerned whether she wore or not but implied that her brothers were over protective.

[wink[

How does one cope with a niqab if you are claustrophobic? I hate not to be able to breath "fresh" air.

I'm sure Nadiya and others do wear hijab because they choose to; what puzzles me is why they choose to given that it's something only some Muslim women do nowadays. Yes, it was common among various other groups in the past as was hat-wearing/head-covering generally. I suppose it's just like any other kind of badge-wearing, such as goth getup or "sleeve tattoos" or men in suits. Obvious badge-wearing just doesn't appeal to me.

Maybe one doesn't go out in public, ww, or maybe one has the claustrophobia metaphorically battered out of one by social pressure at a young age.

I think it is now clear that those who do not like immigrants will never change even if it is obvious that Nadya was a worthy winner. It is called prejudice!

Is Nadiya an immigrant? I don't know anything about her except that she wears a hijab and that she won the GBBO. I presumed she was a British citizen like me.